Take a look at Fred Frailey’s column in the recent Trains (check online if you are a subscriber).
Certainly not much room for optimism about HSR in the US.
In reading the article, it’s clear that Mr. Frailey not only means projects like California, but as the term “high speed” is defined by the FRA to include 110 mph upgrades. In other words, projects such as Chicago/St Louis are included.
I’d like to believe he is just being provocative, but maybe he is saying what some of us have been thinking. The thing I wonder about is the willingness of the administration to continue to spend funds that have already been appropriated in the face of a Congress that would not authorize such spending today.
It’s an interesting question.
The term “rescission” is being tossed around lately, as a way for the new House to recover unspent ARRA funds. There is some internal debate in the GOP about this as well as whether to divert those dollars to other pet projects or reduce the deficit.
I have not heard anything on the Florida HSR since Scott said he does not want state money going into the project. On one hand, you might expect the Fed to pull out of the Florida HSR, but it was to be their demo project, so the future of HSR would hang on the Flordia roll-out. And the Fed already has a lot invested in Florida HSR.
There is no way to join this thread without it becoming political.
Joining a thread won’t make it political.
The only way to make a thread political is to push the “report abuse” button.
California has one other option for there HSR and that is let China build and receive all of the monies from it for the first twenty years of operation. That has been discussed on severl occasions and may be the answer for HSR in other parts of the US.
Americans are afraid of HSR because they believe the S stands for Socialism. We can’t have the government paying for High Speed Rail, now, if it means that someone else is gonna get a faster ride then me while I pay for it!
The S does not stand for Socialism. It stands for (non-)Sequitor.
There are TV shows I never watch, maybe I am not that interested, maybe model railroad club meets on the nights those shows are on. “Boston Legal” is such a show, but I have been a fan of WIlliam Shatner since Star Trek, and out of curiosity I looked up the Wikipedia on his character Denny Crane.
It is explained that Denny Crane is the head of his law firm and a lawyer with a very high opinion of himself, taken with speaking out his name “Denny Crane!” to “remind people they are in the presence of greatness.” Part of the show and part of the development of the character is that Denny Crane starts to have "senior moments’ – perhaps simple mental lapses, perhaps early-onset senile dementia, perhaps a man who should have retired instead of keeping himself in charge of his law firm. The running joke on the show, perhaps dark humor as it deals with a sad all-too-real-world subject of getting old and losing one’s mental edge, is that the character blurts out “Denny Crane!” at odd and perhaps inappropriate moments.
The government at all levels appears to be broke right now. My brother-in-law thinks the “Republicans in Congress are the worst kind of hypocrites for saying they want to cut spending given what had gone on (in the previous presidency when Republicans controlled three branches of government).” The man believes that what he believes, and who is to say that he isn’t right and the Republicans or Tea Party people or whoever are all hypocrites, but what is the correct action at this juncture – to spend money we don’t have on more projects, worthwhile they may be? Yes we can borrow and run deficits, but when the accumulated deficit reaches around 100% of GNP, you are pretty much maxed out because the interest payments are going to bleed you white.
The President appeared before a Joint Session of Congress as is his duty under the Constitution, the sense of anticipation
Henry,
Americans don’t need the “S” in HSR to define socialism. They can clearly see that they are about to be suffocated by socialism in every new policy coming at them. HSR is just one facet of it. And I disagree with your assessment that people are only opposing HSR because they personally resent somebody getting a free train ride. It is not about personal grudges.
Paul,
You said this:
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I stand by my statement that it is not about dollars it’s about priorities.
I hear lots of people complaining about money wasted on infrastructure, including HSR, and humanitarian aid for our citizens. I hear people even calling for the revocation of the pensions of government retirees, and undermining Social Security. But I hear almost no one complaining that 8.7 BILLION dollars is unaccounted for in Iraq, or about the cost of maintaining hundreds of military bases all over the world. I hear almost no one complaining about billions of dollars of incentives that are given to oil companies, even thought they are making record profits while the country struggles. I hear the same people who are complaining that the government doesn’t have enough money to operate demanding billions of dollars in tax cuts for the richest 3% of Americans, thereby reducing the amount of money the government takes in.
It’s about how we choose to spend the money that we do have. It’s about priorities. The double edge sword of morality: What you will do for a dollar and what you do with a dollar.
so somebody explain reasons (not opinion) why we need HSR and what benefit we gain because I can’t see any reason for it especially when run by the federal government.
Perhaps the HSR is an acronym for the HySteRia we seem to be hearing? “The sky is falling,” said Chicken Little. The real crisis was at the end of 2008 and well into 2009, with the worst economic mess since the great depression.
That said, I think current priorities do not include HSR expansion. Military cuts? Realistically, in view of the instability in the Middle East/Egypt, that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
If you look in the latest Trains Magazine and the article about the Swiss tunnel project and how it was undertaken by government and why; 200+mph passenger trains and 99mph freight!. That is the question, the problem, the place we are, here in America. Many projects need tending to. But the investment community wants quick and high returns not long term solutions. So what do we do about HSR or anything else.
But direct to HSR: your question is excellent. Before we answer that we must answer what is HSR. It is a neat catch all term that invokes romantic fancies of literally flying through the country side without know really how fast you are going. 80? 90?100?200? How many miles per hour is high speed. How many miles per hour is practical? And where? I believe there are needs and uses for trains of all speeds in our country. But we must start thinking outside the gas tank and the airport and fancy names like HSR to get to the real answers and the future. The question after that is if the investment community is unwilling to put up the money should the government do it? Next Civil War is close at hand?
My opinion on why we need trains:
Here in Charlotte you can fly round trip to Raleigh, the state capital. The round trip cost is $401 unless you have bags to take with you. Taxes, airport fees, and checked baggage fees are not included in that price. The trip takes about 50 minutes each way. Add at least an hour at departure to get through the bizarre security play, and another half hour at destination to claim your bags.
You can also take the train. The round trip cost is $52, bags travel free. There are no extra fees. The trip takes 3.5 hours each way. Add 15 minutes at each end if you check bags. Up to two can be carried on, eliminating that time. If you are not checking bags you can arrive 10 minutes before departure. The train runs 3 times a day in each direction
BUT… The train also stops at and serves the people in Kannapolis, Salisbury, High Point, Greensboro,
I’m not sure about the accuracy of the airfare of $401 + tax. As we all know, there are many fares, depending on factors like non-stop vs. 1-2 stops, how far in advance and which day of the week you fly. For example, if I were to fly on the first weekend of March, nonstop RT fare, including taxes and fees, is only $178. But, If I flew next Tuesday, Feb. 1, returning Feb. 2, the fare would be $939!! Clearly, for business travelers (who have to watch costs these days), the train would make sense. But if you are just doing a weekend and can plan well in advance, flying could be an option.
I copied those fares off the two websites. They were both for Wednesday Feb 16 returning the 17th. I chose two weeks out in the middle of the week specifically because airfare is cheaper in the middle of the week than it is Mon and Fri. The train fare doesn’t change. Who wants to plan their travel at the convenience of the carrier? I think that the way airfare is calculated is unfair to people who need to travel on short notice and on their own schedule.
Besides that, my real point was that the train serves all the intermediate communities and the airplane does not.
You could get a cheaper fare from USAir if you went through DC or Philadelphia, but then it would take longer than the train, would involve a plane change, and would still cost more than the train.
Dave: What I can’t get over was the idea of making a business trip this Tuesday, $52 vs $939, i.e., a fare 18X the train fare, which is only a little slower, door to door. It is a great example of the corridor services Amtrak (or somebody less burdened with an outdated mission) can develop that will have a huge ridership and thus cover its OE. 3 1/2 hrs,160 miles, 8 stops. With somewhat higher top speeds and less dwell time at stops en route, the time could be cut to 2 to 2 1/2 hours. That is the kind of service in the right locations we should be putting any dollars into; not wasting any more money on labor-intensive long distance cruise ships [sorry, I meant trains] or overly ambitious true HSR projects, for now.
Phoebe Vet, you are well-served, indeed … this is a flashback to the 1960s. Here, if I want to ride Amtrak, I get to drive 100 miles to catch a single schedule (east or west) in either direction.
Yours seems to be the kind of service you and others – rightfully, I think – have been advocating as at least minimally useful to the public. (Multiple departures, reasonable timekeeping, etc.) So – how is it doing? Does it seem to be well-supported? Do you use it much yourself?
I am not trying to be “smart.” In fact, I would like to think that, in some parts of the country outside the NEC – Chicago-St. Louis, for instance – passenger rail really does have something useful to do.
https://apps.dot.state.nc.us/pio/releases/details.aspx?r=4139
Yes it’s well received, and yes I ride it.
It is exactly what I am advocating. Fast, frequent, and on time.
It is currently being upgraded from 79 mph to 90 mph service. NC has been putting millions into upgrades and crossing improvements for several years.
Very few people would take a train from Charlotte to Boston, but a lot of people would take the train among the communities along the way.