but what is right in your mind is not the LAW…
csx engineer
safty is eveyones responsiblity… but the aurgment in this thread seems to be untimletly who is responsable for the liabilty issue… and if the driver of the truck took a load that he knew wasnt ok to go…then it is is fult… and as stated above… it is the drivers responsibilty to inspect his load to insure it is loaded correctly and tied down proper…regardless of who loaded it…
csx engineer
The argument over whose f
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out as the story unfolds. So far no charges have been filed against the company or the driver, but that may change.
There are certainly some troubling issues surrounding the driver. What caused him to swerve in the first place? Once he regained control, why didn’t he stop to check the load? Reports are that the coils did not actually come off the truck for several minutes after the initial incident.
What may be most troubling of all is the way the media presented the story.
There was a frighteningly similar accident recently in western Wisconsin, in which a jack knifed semi was struck by a tour bus carrying a high school band, killing 5. This happened on interstate 94, in the dark hours.
At first the media was out to hang the truck driver, perhaps rightfully so, as he was relatively inexperienced, and had recently bounced a check paying a speeding ticket in Indiana. Technically he shouldn’t have been driving.
A couple of days into the story, “dirt” surfaced on the bus and it’s driver. Appearently the brakes would not have passed a safety inspection, and the driver may very well have been fatigued, as the time of the accident was around 2 AM.
After the funerals for the victims, the story falls off the media’s radar. Sensational reporting at it’s best.
Here are links to the story, the first one is very early, the second is an update from yesterday. The print version is much better reporting than what went out over the air. Check out the videos associated with the story.
Alot of the reporting is on being based on 39 out of service violations in 2 yrs. I drove mutilple loads and was always on the verge of out of service. DOT regs state your log biik must be current to the last changte of duty status. Give a DOT gestopo agent enough time and they will find something to place you out of service. I was placed out of service in massacusets for not haveing white sheets in my bunk. They will find anything to place you out of service. I had a inspector at Truckee CA one of the hardest inspection statons flat out tell me I am going o inspect you but you tell me an easy way to get under the Century class Freigthlint you will get a CVSA sticker. At the time the Century was a new model and the fairngs only were around 4 inches off the road for fuel economy. I sowed him how to pull the inspection portion off and he kept his word and gave me my sticker. Alot of inspections by the DOT consists f hte attitude of the inspector or the driver. You get an inspector that has had a rough time at home or work he is going to find somethign also you hav e abad attitude with said inspector enjoy your nap. Yet you treat them with respect and courtesy you will get on with your run.
What DOT regulation did that fall under? [:D]
I would have to agree with BB4005 about the sensational reporting. A couple of the media outlets reported only the hard facts of the accident, however, a few seem to have went ahead with a story line before having every detail well researched. Seems it’s easier to report from the hip and then, on a later broadcast, stick a 5 second blurb correcting a mistake in a story. Oh, well, no harm done right? Meanwhile, motorists think the railroad is operating unsafe commercial vehicles, driving trains like maniacs, and disregarding the publics’ safety as a matter of policy. When will it end? Think about it. Do trucking companies run a used up truck into a car just to show communities the consequences of a lapse in judgement at an intersection?
Flatbedding is hard,dangerous,work.One moment of inatention or one corner cut can result in death.I won’t haul coils on my trucks,but we do haul extrusion liners which are similar in size and shape.Lots of chains and lots of blocking,preferably some sort of saddle.And you can’t soak your chains in oil anymore,so you have to be diligent about checking them for cracks and kinks.But once the load touches my truck it is MY responsibility for proper securement.Even with a pre-loaded truck,it is still the drivers responsibility to make sure everything is secured properly.As far as liability goes,the carrier’s primary insurance should cover the loss,but it’s the driver that gets the citations,probably a civil suit,financial Armegeddon,and having to find a new career,plus the mental anguish from knowing you just killed people.And just like trains,four wheelers will not see you or yield to you.
Too many lawyers in this room!
CC
The key working phrase in this accident is “FATALITY” that makes it a reportable DOT accident and what C40-2 says is very true, the DOT will inspect the rig and accident details, it will be discected and possibly re-enacted to determine what actually happened. Then a court will decide, unless the lawyers involved can reach an out of court settlement…In the Trucking business the very worst scenario is a trial by jury…With the prejudices that the public holds against trucks and truckers, it will most generally go hard on the Trucker and his company.
Ultimately, the truck driver is an employee of the company, as an employee, or as a leased agent for the company. Just as surely as the engineer is an employee of a railroad. It is this relationship that will determine who gets the financial burden for the damages done. You might remember back in 1999 when the southbound City of New Orleans struck the trailer of an independent steel hauler’s trailer at Bourbonaise, Il. The driver had seen the train approaching in the distance and mistakenly thought it was a slow freight and when he had gone around the gates in an attempt to beat the train he was hit by the City of NOLa. The result was about 6-7 million dollars damag
There is an obscure dot reg for the equipment in the sleeper area. It regulates the thickness of the mattress in a team situation 4 in thick min and also the color of the sheets they require white sheets in the bunk for so called sanitary issues if running team.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by samfp1943
The key working phrase in this accident is “FATALITY” that makes it a reportable DOT accident and what C40-2 says is very true, the DOT will inspect the rig and accident details, it will be discected and possibly re-enacted to determine what actually happened. Then a court will decide, unless the lawyers involved can reach an out of court settlement…In the Trucking business the very worst scenario is a trial by jury…With the prejudices that the public holds against trucks and truckers, it will most generally go hard on the Trucker and his company.
Ultimately, the truck driver is an employee of the company, as an employee, or as a leased agent for the company. Just as surely as the engineer is an employee of a railroad. It is this relationship that will determine who gets the financial burden for the damages done. You might remember back in 1999 when the southbound City of New Orleans struck the trailer of an independent steel hauler’s trailer at Bourbonaise, Il. The driver had seen the train approaching in the distance and mistakenly thought it was a slow freight and when he had gone around the gates in an attempt to beat the train he was hit by
Having a bunch of truck drivers in the family I can say its the drivers fault, the driver is always responsible for his/her load. When I go on a trip with my brother in law he is always checking his trailer at every stop.
Well, I’m going to agree with the majority of members who believe that the driver is at fualt for this incident. Personally, I don’t think anyone who isn’t qualified to handel certain types of loaded equipment on trucks shouldn’t be driving a loaded truck, espeacilly if they are uncertain of the proper load secureing proceedures for teh product they are hauling. I don’t care if the driver is only hauling milk . Another point here. If the driver knew how to safely inspect the load and didn’t inspect the load or overlooked something he should most certainly be heald completely responcible.
I work with trucks and heavy machinery at a diesel servicing facility. Sometimes my shop forman will give me projects to work on in which I am not too familar with the equipmwnt thus, I do not feel comfortable working on it. So, you know what I tell my forman No…I can’t work on it. The same thing goes when it comes to takeing certain trucks for road tests.
I would have to agree.
Having just taken a course on forklift driving, & got my certificate!
Not sure what it’s like in the US, but if ANYTHING bad happens to the load or forklift while it’s being used, it’s the sole responsibilty of the driver. He can’t use the excuse " my boss made me hurry" as it won’t fly in court.
It’s up to the driver to make sure the load on the forks are secured properly & also to make sure that the forklift has no visible defects.
I have 3 In-Laws that are truckers & it’s up to them to make sure that the load they are hauling is secured before moving the truck away from the loading dock.
It seems that this driver was in a hurry so he could pick up another load before the day was done & most likely cut a few corners in securing the load.
The media doesn’t help in this either.
Just my 2 cents.
Gordon
The Trucker should be lieable because he didn’t besure the load was secured properlty.
We had an encounter with a log truck that lost its load and although it totalled our minivan and my better half got a broken leg out of it, we were fortunate, it could have been far worse. Driver and the company were held responsible. Also, seat belts were our best friends in this case. Oh, and we give loads of this nature a wide berth to this day, as best we can.
There’ve been at least two incidents I can recall in my area with steel coils falling off, both resulting in fatalities of people who were innocently driving along, obeying the law, minding their own business, when the loads let go, both in curves, and fell on them. Frightening, the second of the two I recall killed two people in two vehicles that were following one another.
AND ultimately the MOTOR CARRIER’s Responsibility to ENSURE said trucker is TRAINED properly and enforces training programs for flat beds.
I have hauled monster 15 foot long 8 feet high coils weighing excess of 50,000 pounds on that deck with 10 straps over the top and 12 chains thru the eye and packed. Even then it will come loose after the deck and frame itself fails.
Unfortunately the orginal swerve problem is either the driver running off the road and recovered it wrong or another vehicle forced the truck to choose to evade rather than hit.
Nothing is ever good in loss of life but there will be hell to pay once the dust settles and the lawsuiting gets started by the dead people’s surviving kin.
Had a similar experience in Arkansas once, with a straight (non-semi) truck. The truck frame broke and scattered logs all over the highway. Arkansas log trucks were something else - the overwhelming majority were the type vehicles even the most desperate junkyard would have rejected.
From personal observations, Logging trucks are the bottom feeders of the trucking industry. Worst equipment driven by the worst drivers of any in the trucking industry. With that being said, I have not had the opportunity, thankfully, to view the NAFTA truckers.
This accident is a tragedy. 2 people died.
As a driver I would have a lot of questions.
1.According to news reports the truck lost it’s load 5 minutes before the coil was struck.
Question what did the driver do to warn other motorists, did he have a cell phone & did he immediately phone 911 or the state patrol? Also did the driver put out any warning devices?(DOT FMSCA regs are very specific that you have 3 Triangles or other such warning devices)
2.Looking at the video from KSTP, I saw 2 straps,but I did not see any chains. Nor did I see any wood blocking on the deck of the trailer(you need this to keep the coil from rolling while you chain the coil down, also to block the load. Also I did not see any
How was the load secured & blocked?
One other comment. I was this truck a lease truck from Ryder? I noticed a sticker on the drivers side in front of the drivers side door, this is usually where leasing companies put a sticker,and the sticker looks like a Ryder sticker. I may be wrong about this(Ryder).
narig01