The responses in support of Eds’ actions and the convoluted logic behind this is truely incredible.
Perhaps, Bergie is right, it is time to move on.
Hey arbfbe,
When you get off your soapbox and come back to earth, then maybe your comments will have some merit. You seem so self-righteous, so I decided to look up your profile…what a surprise–no info. What do you do for a living? How dangerous is your job?
What Ed did was brilliant, not cruel. Consider this: what if what Ed did to those idiots made them realize the stupidity of their actions? Maybe he save their lives! Maybe they went back to work and told others not of their ‘exciting’ trip, but instead of how they almost got killed, and got banged up in the process. Maybe Ed saved many guy’s lives.
What would you preach about then? They wanted to ride the rails for “excitement”. Ed was simply giving them what they wanted.
And what are the “norms of common decency” that you refer to? Being a namby-pamby towards those that, by their actions, indicate they are not deserving of such respect?
And you say that those of us laughing at the story need to grow up. Gee, I was thinking the same about you. I bet you believe in not spanking your kids also. “Just give them a time out. Little junior will respond positively. At least it says so in my ‘parenting for dummies’ book”. Right? So likewise, do you feel we should have just given these morons a “time out” thinking that will leave an impression on them? I would bet that what Ed did made an even bigger impression!
And your right about him including the story on his next job app saving time; it showed: resourcefullness, a willingness to take care of a problem immediately instead of leaving it for someone else, and a willingness to make a decision and stand by it. If I were interviewing him, he already got the job (unless it was in Customer Service)[;)].
Zardoz,
Well, you can add this to my profile, I do what Ed claims he does and have done it off and on since 1969. I have never seen a rail treat another human being like this in my entire career. I doubt I ever will. If I saw Ed and crew doing this again my first call would be to 911, perhaps that might keep Ed and crew out of trouble big time. Roughing them up to perhaps to save their lives, get real. Now we get to name calling and mamby pamby. Zardoz, I will stay with my assessment that perhaps you need to grow up. Ed and his crew did not provide the "excitement’ the may have perceived the riders may have wanted, they placed the riders’ health and well being in jeopardy.
Call the cops and have them arrested for tresspassing. After they pay the $350 fine they will not likely return. No one gets roughed up and no one gets hurt. I hope someday you can give Ed a position with your company to reward his “brilliance”, “resourcefulness” and “willingness to handle the problem and not hand it off to others.” I do not think I would want either one of you within 100 miles of any company I might be responsible for. I have seen people fired permanently for a lot less. I have seen companies sued for less. Both of you are too risky for my money or the stockholders’ money.
I found Ed’s story to be both entertaining as well as informative…just as I’m sure was intended.
The one thing that did cross my mind while reading it was the liability the RR would have in this litigation happy society of ours, for maintaining a “concealed hazard” (Ed, in otherwords) such as that on their property.
Really shocked that the RR police were not somehow obligated to snitch off such on the job roughhousing, just in fulfulling their duty.
Maybe the boxcars with shackles are the roadroad’s strategy for dealing with the FTRA internally? [;)]
The president of this group is Elmer “Stubby” McGee and the VP is Dan “Peg Leg” Wagner.
eom
arbfbe-
I was out of line in part of my post above, and I apologize for the name-calling. I was upset at your implied coddling of the idiots that Ed “roughed” up. If they had over $5000 between them, a tv, cell phones, fancy backpacks, etc. I doubt a measly $350 fine would have been much of a deterent to future ‘adventures’. I noticed that you did not address the issue of the potential life-saving result of Ed’s actions.
However, I stand by my opinion that what Ed did was not completely out-of-line; close to the edge, perhaps, but not over.
You claim to be a part-time rail. And you claim that you were "roughed up"in a caboose a few times. When that happened, I would guess that the engineer knew somebody was in the waycar, and tried to be as gentle as possible with the equipment he had.
When the railroads got rid of the waycar, my job as an engineer got 100% easier. No longer did I have to be concerned for the fragile life-forms at the rear of my train; I merely had to be concerned for the lading of the cars. I would venture a guess that most other engineers would agree with me
So, if you accept that presumption, you realize the likelyhood that the various engineers that handled the trains that the car these morons were riding in were not concerned about the potential for injury how he handled the train. Which leads me to my point: these dopes were riding in trains where getting “roughed up” was a calculated risk.
You’ve never seen a rail treat another human that badly? You must live and work in a nice, safe area. I’ve seen bums get thrown off of MOVING trains. I’ve seen worse. Life in the big city, I guess.
However, maybe, after some train bum has stolen your grip, or robbed you at knifepoint in the yard, or maybe have a few of them corner you in the yard demanding your wallet, your clothes, or maybe your virginity, maybe, just maybe, you would not have such an unrealistic view of these “fragile humans” that ar
Again, I stand by my comment that these guys KNEW they were tresspassing. They put themselves in risk by doing so. As for the cruel and unusual punishment, how so if what was happening falls within the realm of standard operating procedure? I’m sure you’ve seen cars being kicked and you know it can be a very violent act. Still it is SOP for railroads such as the one Ed works for. I think given the circumstances it would be hard to prove this “cruel and unusual”. Perhaps Gabe or some of or other forum members familiar with the law could answer this better.
I know that full well and don’t believe that I had suggested it was. Tresspassing is a crime anywhere but more importantly tresspassing on railroad property is risking one’s life. My point is that the riders in question learned that lesson in this case.
You have your convictions and I have mine. I’m not looking to pick a fight but part of the concept of this forum is to allow members to voice their opinions. I also know full well Ed doesn’t need me to defend his actions. He is fully capable of defending himself. I haven’t bashed your thoughts and opinions in your posts and I’d ask that you extend the same courtesy. You have you opinions and feelings on how this should’ve been dealt with and I have mine. We’ll agree to disagree on this topic. I’m willing to move on as well before this thread descends into even more silliness and gets an
arefbe,
Well, I kinda think that they placed themselves in harms way.
I doubt anyone forced them to train hop, nor did anyone force them to choose the bethgon as a ride.
This happened at the tail end of the SP/UP meltdown in Houston, we were having trains that should be yarded on the UP shoved down our throats because UP “owned” the dispatching for the metroplex at that time.
UP crews inbound to Houston didn’t even know where to tell their cabs to pick them up at, because they had no idea where they would end up.
Totally frustrating times down here.
It also must have been the “Yuppies ride the Rails” year…you know how crazes and fads go with that group of people…anyway, we were having so many trespassers, and so many problems with them, not the least is it slows everything down, that our gumshoes were working 12 on 12 off just keep them under control.
It was also the year of “The Railroad Killer” where the news media had hyped the Mendez story to the point it wouldn’t have surprised me if civilians hadn’t started using the thrill riders for target practice.
The area where our yard is might not be the best part of town, the Houston ship channel and city docks are not someplace to be after dark.
HPD only patrols down here, they don’t get out of their cars unless there is no other choice, several times they get called out to a disturbance, and when they arrive and get out to investigate, they get shot at.
Now, from the short bit of the young mans phone conversation that I overheard, it was apparent he was a well educated, young white male, no accent and no slang, so it was readily apparent he was a thrill rider.
We just obliged him and his friends.
In fact, we didn’t know we had a three for the price of one going, I initially though there was only two of them!
No, they were not in any real danger, other than their pride being hurt and their toys getting stepped on.
The inside of a bethgon is, by nature
As for these knuckleheads…simply arresting them and escorting them off the ROW would have not had the same effect psychologically as getting slammed around a little in the yard. Of course these Bozo’s could have ended up like the guy I read about on Deadtrainbums.com they found in a trailing engine cab hogtied naked and “violated”, Yep! Yuppie Trainhopper looking for the "romance of the rails’ guess he found it…sort of…
Ed did the right thing, teach’em a lesson. Think twice about doing it again. Got an issue you got to prove a point to the world how macho you are? take up base-jumping. Dont step on other peoples jobs just to prove something to yourself or friends.
What really got me re-reading this was not the Fearless Leader knucklehead, but his Sheep managers who tagged along to show they werent litlle girly men to their boss. “Yeah I’ll show the boss we have guts!” BS! If they had guts, they would have said “… Hmm Stuff $5k in my pockets to ride on a dusty windy open to the elements railcar, possibly lose one or both legs or my life if I fall or get mugged and pushed off by hobo’s all so I can prove to my boss I’m not chicken?..Hmmmmm. [censored] THAT NOISE BOSS MAN!” …now THAT would take guts!!!
[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow]
I’m coming to visit this summer Ed! I can’t wait to see all the
I told Ed I was going to stick my [2c] in here, but I think he covered it quite nicely.
Sometimes grown “children” need drastic measures to get a point across.
And now this thread will fade away, cuz when I post, they always do…
What can I say - it’s a gift!
Mook
How this thread ever became a heated conflict, I’ll never know. Evidently the FTRA has more political clout than I gave them credit for…[8)]
Thought I was the only one who had that gift. I guess now I know there are others like me after all.[;)][alien][;)]
[(-D]
Mike
[bow] Go Ed.
It serves those stupid yuppie ***s right. They knew they don’t belong there and that they have no business riding in the train cars. They deserve the “rough ride” Ed gave them and then some. You wanna ride trains that’s what AMTRAK is for.
As for the documentary some of it does seem a little bit like over the top sensationalism. Especially with the guy saying “If You live near train tracks you have a potential crime scene in your back yard.” Dumbass. If you live anywhere you have a potential crime scene in your backyard. A few months ago the SWAT team was called to a standoff a block away from a house I lived in when I was a kid and I didn’t see no train tracks when I lived there.
I didn’t go 31 flavors of paranoid on September 11th. Yes crime is likely to happen in some places more than others but I honestly doubt there’s a Taliban or an FTRA member every 18 inches.
So long as you go railfanning in a well lit public area at a reasonable time of day you’ll be fine and as long as you stay out of freight trains that Ed runs. [(-D]
Hmmm, ARBFBE, you’ve never seen a human being treat another in that fashion? Never? You’re fortunate, is all I can say. I hate to say I’ve been railroading for as long as I have but it’s thirty-four years plus and I’ve known engineers and conductors who got into tiffs (and that’s a mild word) and the engineer would decide he’d show the conductor just who was REALLY running the train, including a couple who would apply the independent (engine brake) and say, “Now he’s in the front of the caboose”, and then release it and say, “Now, he’s in the rear of the caboose”. It’s true, it’s vicious, but some of the old boys weren’t really such nice guys.
Some of the old memories aren’t always so pleasant, entertaining, perhaps, but not pleasant.
Hey guys…
Ya know, arbfbe is entitled to his opinion, even if you don’t agree with it.
If he is offended, Ok, not that big a deal to me, and my invite to him and you guys still stands.
So, if we have to argue, then let’s argue the point of weather the FTRA is or is not real, not weather we like his opinion of how I handled a few dummies.
For my 2cents, I don’t think they are what the story claims, I rather agree with the AntiGates, they are using the camera as an opportunity to make themselves appear “more bad” than they really are.
Ed
I have a question. Who is this Railroad Killer? I am consdiering working for the railroad in a few years but now I hear about these dangerous hobo’s? I mean, Im pretty well built now and sure I will be able to overpower a couple of bums, including using an airhose or lantern etc, but how dangerous really are they? Did this railroa killer kill railroaders? Also, I am going to obtain a concealed weapons license when I am 18-21, whichever the age limit is, but you cant bring them on the rails can you?
My bad, I had his name wrong.
here are a few links…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial2/railroad/
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/public_information/publications/chaparral/chap0899.pdf
http://www5.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/08/railroad.killer/
He used the trains as a way to escape and move place to place.
The first link has a lot of information, most quite accurate.
Ed
and no, carrying a gun is not allowed by GCOR…
Well I can vouch for what Ed does…we work on shrimp boats in the Gulf…He refers to me as LT Dan…[:D]
So what do you have to worry about on the high iron? hobo’s? gangs? animals?