What’s the general consensus of using Tortoise machines or ground throws in a freight yard?
I, for one, would use one of these methods [(-D]
To be more specific - I have used tortoises on many switches in my yards. The exceptions are little used switches and those very near the fascia. For me and the trains, it’s safer to use the tortoises. It does become costly in short order.
You might find that there is no consensus here - just good but varied ideas.
Karl
Disclaimer: The opinion of a single modeler, no matter how, “Authorative,” is not a concensus.
Disclaimer 2: Tortoise machines, while excellent, are NOT the only electrical switch machines - or even the only stall motors.
Disclaimer 3: Not all manual controls are ground throws.
In my own work, the decision of whether to use an electrical machine or a manual point mover is based on the answers to a couple of simple questions:
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How many places are there where operators will need to move that particular set of points. If two or more, an electrical machine is preferred. If only one, the choice goes to…
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How close to those points and/or their actuator will the operator who is making or breaking up a train normally be located. If immediately adjacent, go for finger power. If half the length of a crowded aisleway, electrical power is probably the better choice.
Because of my layout electricals (hot frogs, signaling, panel indicators) my point movers have to have DPDT contacts, so my manual throws are usually toggle switches linked to the points below the subroadbed. I use twin-coil machines for electrical throws, because my prototype didn’t have machines that ee-aa-ss-ee-dd the points over. The mechanical and electrical linkages slammed the points from one side to the other with a Clank! that could be heard half a kilometer down the line. Both manual controls and electric switch machines are mounted just inside the fascia line, as are the terminal blocks for all of my electricals. Electrical machines may be controlled from the Zone or CTC panels, by anything from probe-and-stud contacts to rotary (electrical) switches with additional circuitry that can simulate manual interlocking electrically.
So, if the points
I personally am not a big fan of ground throws as for me they look silly and way out of scale. Tortoise are my switch machine of choice but we all know the cost involved. Plus not to mention weather or not you want them cab controlled or by toggle switch mounted in the fascia
So as an alternative I have purchased but not yet installed some remote manually operated units from Hump yard purveyance. He makes a well made set up that seems like it will be pretty reliable. My thinking is a yard is a little different then any other situation where turnouts are involved as your usually standing right there making car moves, building trains etc. so you have that hands on experience and don’t have some clunky lever type thing next to your turnout. Rix products used to make one that look a lot more prototypical and was more to scale but I think they may be out of production.
I have a relatively large hidden staging area in another room and my friend is try to persuade me to use something like Switch Tenders from Micro mark but their not much cheaper. So I guess it all comes down to how much you have to spend. If you pre drill the 1/2" required hole for a Tortoise and cover it with a thing piece of styrene or some other material between the track and the roadbed you can always install then piecemeal as you can afford them.
What type of yard is it? Can you reach the turnouts easily? How do you feel about reaching into the layout? What’s your budget?
Personally, I like ground throws, and use them on all non-mainline turnouts. It’s more interactive. Plus less expensive…a 5 pack of Caboose 202 ground throws, costs less then one Tortoise.
Nick
Hi from Belgium,
I am ready to lay track for my future yard in Nscale; all the turnouts are semi handlaid with Fastrack jig.
The east and west side of the yard are an around 55 turnouts, most n°6 and a few n°8.
I will use Tortoise or Switchmaster motors to drive them, and I admit it will be quite expensive.
I didn’t want hand throw because there are to many turnouts in this yard.
The linkage necessary to move all these throwbar to align one ladder will be too complicate.
So anyway my turnouts will be throw with slow motors switcmachines.
If you order them in great quantities you can get one for an affordable price. Even on Ebay there are offer for bulk package of Tortoise.
Check and compare the price offer for bulk package of motors. You can find price from the 210$ for 12 motors to an around 155$ for the same number; take a look at the advertissementg in MR.
Switchmaster motors are Hankcraft motor display which can be ordered directly by Hankcraft if you need big quantities.
Marc
It all depends on what you want to achieve. Me, I use ground throws because I want to walk beside my engine and don’t want to add to the wiring by using switch machines. It realy depends on how you want to operate your road and how realistic you want to have it. If I was really into photography I might have gone another way. Last cost is to be considered with the cheapest Tortoise going for around $12 or the same price as 5 Caboose ground throws. Already I have around 20 turnouts or $240 for Tortoise or around $50 for the other.
It’s obviously a personal choice thing and also dependent upon your needs. I am building a layout in my loft where there is not a lot oof room for more than 2 to operate. In fact most of the time it’s just me. I have used Tortoise machines totally on every turn out. I use NCE DCC which allows me to program each turnout as an accessory and I can switch directly using my NCE handheld. I can also Macros so I can select and line up routes for easier yard work.
I have used other turnout switches before that are the the quick throw type but I didn’t like them much as they were unrealistic. Nothing looks better than a slow switch throw.
OK, they are not cheap and the cost quickly mounts up, but the effect is right and the machines are well made and reliable. It takes a while to set each motor up especially if you use the extra terminals to control signals etc, but hey, it’s a modelling hobby and I feel as if I’ve really made my layout work properly.
Just a correction, the tortoise instructions call for a 1/4" hole, not a 1/2" hole.
Another simple solution for manually throwing a turnout is to use a simple slide switch (either SP or DP). The contacts can power route the frog, and extra set of contacts can be used for indicator lights. A short piece of piano wire is used to connect the slide to the turnout. Mount it right next to turnout, cut down the lever and install a target and they look better than a Caboose ground throw, and cheaper.
Another option are manual remote throws, such as Fast Tracks Bullfrogs or Bluepoints. These give you something that is cheaper than a electrical throw, but still allows for a powered frog, without having to totally engineer a home made solution.
a picture would be a great help ,Ilike the Idea but having trouble with the linkage and look ,please
I’ve been considering using the Bullfrog manual controller. They’re fairly inexpensive and seem like they’ll do the trick. Has anyone else had any experience with the Bullfrog setup?
I’ve been using Tortoise motors, I have 30+ installed, but I’m switching to servo controlled turnouts for my yards and industrial areas. They are way smaller, and less costly if you buy the servos on ebay. Servo controllers are available from Tam Valley Depot, Team Digital, and Anemodel. I work in N-scale, and often times fitting mulitple Tortoise motors into a small place (like a yard) is a real challenge.
If you’d like to try a servo, order one by today (11-30-09) & you can get a Tam Valley Singlet (servo controller/decoder & servo) at the introductory price of $4.50.
I’m also going to install a couple of Atlas snap switches at the entry/exit points of my reverse loops. The tortoise machines are just too for this application.
I’m also going to use a couple of ground throws on turnouts close to the fascia.
I’d say don’t be afraid to mix and match what works for a particular turnout.
I use a combination of Peco switch motors driven by a Digitrax switch decoder (for hard to reach switches - i.e. near the middle of the table), and finger power for the yard switches. I figure realistic ‘dummy’ ground throws would be the way to go.
As you can see there is as many different oppinions as there are people modeling.
Personally I use under layout Tortise machine in all the places the NYC would probably use remote switches ( interlocking plants, CTC etc.) and Caboose sprung ground throws any place there would be a manual switch. The Tortises are thrown from one of the two CTC panels on the layout, with bi-directional LEDs to indicate main or diverge. The Groundthrows are unprototypically large, but I find throwing the switches myself increases my fun. My yard must have about 20 switches, but I don’t worry about ladder tracks, I have the brakeman throwing one ground throw at a time as the engine follows slowley behind. Of course if it was an electronic hump yard then remote control switches are alligned by the hump tower operator and the engineer contacts him via radio or squak box(before radios) when any necessary switching is done.
I also have another 15 ground throws out in the sidings, but a tortise on the lead where the siding meets the main. There are call boxes at all those locations so the conductor can call the CTC operator to have him allign the switch. There are electric machines on all the switches with the Tortises which look good, but don’t do anything.
That is how I do it on my layout and if I had it to do over again I would do it the same.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
My previous layout yard switches were all electric. It was very convienent, and real time consuming (compaired to installing manual ground throws) to install. On my current layout I decided to make all of my switches in the yards a manual ground throw. After all, most of us have complete physical access to all parts of our yards, and its just more realistic for a yard crew to throw them by hand. My Tortoise applications are on the mainline only.
Personally, I don’t like to see the “hand of God” in my view when I am running my trains. So I either have electrical switch machines in hidden areas, (Peco PL-11) or else a manual switch linkage that uses the music wire trick.
Just my $2, (price adjusted for inflation)
the music wire trick,“Lucy yous gots some esplanin to doo” Im new and dont know all the tricks,so please help me … ps I love the" hand a god" thing
BIG JERR
Maybe this will help http://www.newrailmodels.com/blue_point_instr.htm OR http://www.handlaidtrack.com/bullfrog-turnout-control-c-2087.php