frisco

Model Railroader Prototype information for the modeler
1

How many f units did Frisco have? I’m talking f units in general from the FT-F9

2

The Frisco had 105 F units. They were: F3As 5000-5017; F3Bs 5100-5117, F7As 5018-5039, F7Bs 5118-5139, FP7s 5040-5051, and F9Bs 5140-5152.

3

I found the following information in the book “Frisco Diesel Power” by Marre & Harper.

There were a total of 105 F units owned by Frisco. By model, the numbers are: F3A - 18, F7A - 22, FP7A - 12, F3B - 18, F7B - 22 and F9B - 13. The book also notes that two of the F3A’s were rebuilt into F9Am’s, #5005 & 5007. By comparison, Frisco owned 48 Alco FA / FB’s and 23 EMD E units.

As a side note, I highly recommend tracking down a copy of “Frisco Diesel Power”. I don’t know if you are a steam fan, but if you like Frisco steam then “Frisco Power” by Joe G. Collias and “Steam Locomotives of the Frisco Line” by Lloyd E. Stagner are must-have books also. Stagner also wrote a small follow-up book called “Frisco Steam Finale 1946-1952” that is also worth tracking down.

Hope this helps,

  • James
4

Funny that James and I found the same information from two different sources. I used a Sy Reich roster book from Railroad Magazine. This roster notes that all the F3s with the exception of #5005 and 5007 were converted to F7s. I take this to mean that the D17 traction motors were replaced with the D27 traction motors and their attendant uprated traction motor blowers and cabling.

Also the majority of the Frisco ALCO FA-1s and FB-1s were reengined with EMD 567s.

Ed

5

Wow, Frisco must have been another one of those late adopters of diesel technology. Not a single FT, and only a few F3s. Union Pacific and N&W are two others without FTs. I knew they were late converters because of the cheapness of coal and especially N&W not wanting to bite the hand that fed it. Why would Frisco be in this category?

6

Not only did Ed and I get the same information from two different sources, we did it at almost the same time - but Ed beat me by two minutes! Considering the fact that researching the question required reading books about my beloved Frisco, it’s a wonder that he didn’t beat me by two hours. At any rate, the number of F units is an easier question to answer than why Frisco dieselized later. What follows is my own opinion, based on reading from various sources (listed in my previous post).

  1. Before WWII, Frisco was in a bankruptcy / reorganization, struggling with the Great Depression like many other railroads. It was not in the financial condition to begin widespread replacement of existing steam locomotives.

  2. During WWII, diesel locomotive production was not only limited due to the war effort, but all locomotive purchases had to be approved by the War Production Board. Since diesel locomotives require a lot of copper - a metal which was in short supply and crucial to other applications (such as ships and airplanes) - many railroads were given permission to get new steam instead of diesel. The 4500 series Northerns were one result of this policy.

  3. Frisco had a conservative motive power policy. With the possible exception of the mallets, Frisco pretty much learned from the experience of other railroads and developed capable machines using that knowledge. Again, the 4500 series Northerns are an example, as they were based on the Burlington’s successful O-5a Northerns. This policy was followed with diesels also; no experimental or first try from unknown builders - with the exception of the GE U25B’s!

  4. After WWII, Frisco had emerged from bankruptcy, had resources due to the war traffic, and the diesel builders had pretty much proven themselves and had tried and true designs. In Frisco’s rush to dieselize, they b

7

I’m not sure UP would be considered a “late converter” like Norfolk and Western was. UP had diesel passenger engines going back to the mid-thirties afterall. After the war UP bought diesels pretty quickly, whereas IIRC N&W didn’t buy it’s first diesel until 1953.

Re UP, it could be a combination of their having fairly new steam engines on hand (Challengers, Big Boys etc.) and the difficulties getting diesels during the war…if a railroad ordered diesels, but the War Production Board didn’t think the railroad needed diesels, it made them get steam instead. Once the war ended UP went with diesels pretty quickly, although they did keep steam working well into the fifties too.

8

Thanks guys.

Ok, with that info in mind, I will now ask another question then.

During the deslization era for them, what all steamers did they operate?

9

http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&q=frisco+roster+steam&meta=

http://thelibrary.springfield.missouri.org/lochist/frisco/friscoline/steam17.cfm[](http://www.google.com/)

http://www.american-rails.com/frisco-steam-locomotives.html

http://www.frisco.org

Smile,
Stein

10

Stein gives some good references, the answer isn’t short. I would recommend the Stagner book “Frisco Steam Finale.” The list includes 0-6-0’s, 2-8-0’s, 2-8-2’s, 2-10-0’s, 4-6-0’s, 4-6-2’s, 4-6-4’s, 4-8-2’s, 4-8-4’s and even the passenger 180 series 4-4-0’s. Mikado 4018 made the last steam revenue run on the Frisco on February 29, 1952.

  • James
11

So, I guess they didn’t have any 2-10-2 or 2-10-4’s?[:O][:(][:(]

12

No 2-10-4’s, but Frisco did have the “Spot Series” of 60 2-10-2’s, built by Baldwin in 1916-17. These were drag era engines and tended to pound the track out of shape at speeds faster than 35 miles per hour. As Frisco transitioned from the drag era to being a fast freight railroad, the spot series became less useful. All except two were scrapped by 1940, with some parts of the boilers used to build the 4300 and 4400 series 4-8-2’s in the Springfield, Missouri shops. The remaining two (#19 & #40) were overhauled and attempted to put in service on the new Fort Leonard Wood branch in 1941. However, #40 derailed on a curved bridge shortly after they were put in service on the branch, prompting the scrapping of the last two long wheelbase 2-10-2’s that same year.

  • James
13

James,

I see your from MO, Were is Northview if you don’t mind me asking.

14

Northview is about 15 miles northeast of Springfield, Missouri just off I-44. It is a little spot in the road now, but used to be a bigger town. It dates from 1870 when the railroad was built and originally was named Bunker Hill, but the Frisco guys renamed it Northview because of … well, the good view to the North. I have a 12" gauge live steam railroad up here, take a look at www.nfrailroad.com if you are interested…

James

15

What color were their heavy wheight passenger cars?