I am a relative newbie with a lot of general hobby experience (fly RC helis), finally doing the layout I’ve always wanted, N Scale, DCC (Zephyr), modelling the Southern Railway themed on the scenes I grew up watching in Marion, NC
I am currently building small 2x4 tracks & incomplete layouts to practice my craft skills, & am having some issues deciding on turnouts, the ever-popular live versus insulated frog debate.
I have been doing some light operations on a double yard oval using peco insul-frog turnouts (code 80 of course) with fail-proof results with all diesel locos & rolling stock. HOWEVER my Mantua 4-4-0 steamer always stalls on the frog at low speeds, & ‘coughs’ at higher speeds.
Will steamers always stall on non-live frog turnouts? Is there a trick to getting better performance?
I am inches away from switching to code 55 & live frogs, BUT fear the wiring & shorts in the future, PLUS I’m using ground throws (often with brass tubing & piano wire), so doesnt that mean frog wiring will be more difficult?
I guess overall, I’m drawn to the simplicity of insulfrog, but see the advantage of live frogs, but fear things getting complicated & preventing my enjoyment of the layout.
Can anyone reccomend EASY resources explaining live frog wiring? Sort of a ‘Frogs For Dummies’?
Any comments GREATLY appreciated!
Ribbit
Lee
Good news/ bad news about frogs.
Bad news, yes, live frogs require a little wiring. Actually, not so much require the wiring as work better with it. The point contact of the rails is often enough to provide power to the portion of the track beyond the frog, although an additional wired feed via some kind of electrical switch interlocked somehow with the direction of the switch throw makes a more positive, though not absoletely necessary, power feed.
What live frog switches REQUIRE is electric GAPS in certain rails at certain places, and a little elementary analysis of your track layout to figure where the gaps go. The analysis is simply this- track power must be fed from the track at the POINT end of the switch.
Let me explain with a simple case…an oval of track with a track switch and one dead-end spur cutting off it to a spot inside the oval. Put your power hookup wires to the track next to the POINT end of the switch. When the switch is thrown for the dead-end spur, the power from the outside rail on is connected to the inside rail at the frog, creating a short if the power can go all the way around the oval of track. But a gap in the rail (or an insulated rail joiner) just beyond the frog on the continuous route prevents it. [This would be easier if I could draw you a picture.] For this simple case, cutting that one gap would be your only extra “wiring” requirement. Not too complicated. You don’t even need a gap for the dead end spur. If you did gap it, you would need a feeder. Extra wiring. But you don’t need it.
Good news, live frogs may SAVE you a little wiring and a few electric switches for dead-end spurs.
There is more to it, but it is not too bad. Maybe I can draw you a picture…
Or, if doing all that to so many turnouts seems like a heck of too much work, try adding pickups to other axles on the steamer…or have someone who can do it. I have insulated frogs everywhere 'cuz I’m lazy, but my LL Heritage 0-6-0 runs through a 2.5" long gap on a curved handlaid #9 with no problems…every time. It was made to handle such track, but your steamer was not. I can be modified much more easily, in my view, than doing all that jumpering.
thanks guys!
How hard is it to add pickups to steam axles? Any tutorials out there? Places that do it? Cost?
And are certain steam locos manufactured to handle insulated turnouts better, without ‘hiccups’ or stalls? If so, what models/brands? This would solve my dilemma possibly.
Ribbit
Ribbit: I don’t think there is a difference between brands on how good pickuo is likely to be.
What you need to check is where the pickups on the particular loco you’re looking at are. The reviews in Model Railroader will help, if you can find the right one. What you are looking for is the maximum spread of pickups from one end to the other on both sides. The worst case is an 0-4-0 or 4-4-0 that only picks up from the drivers. If the wheelbase is less than the length of a plastic frog, it will stall.
Aha, thanks, that helps. So I was considering ordering this 2-8-0 I’ve had my eye on:
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/dto/item140-10909.html
Is there a better likelihood it will span my plastic frog as opposed to my 4-4-0?
Yes, much better. Shorter wheelbase steam may have trouble on insulated frogs, but that 2-8-0 should work. I use the Peco large radius insulfrogs in N scale and have no trouble with a Kato 2-8-2.
Here’s a pictorial on adding tender pickups to an N scale Bachmann Northern, but the same principals would apply to any loco.
http://www.2guyzandsumtrains.com/Content/pa=showpage/pid=61.html