I just completed construction of Walthers Wood Water Tank kit which I bought shortly before they came out with the built-up version. It looked like a fairly simple kit to build so I figured it would be no problem. WRONG!!! Had I known the aggravation I would go through putting this thing together, I would have pitched it in the trash and bought the built-up version. While most of the kit is pretty straight forward, there were two major exceptions. The first came with construction of the timber framing for the tower. This consisted of four major pieces connected with diagonal bracing. Trying to get all the little nubs in the diagonal bracing to simultaneously line up with all the little holes in the timber framing was more than a little aggravating. These diagonal braces are fairly thin plastic which tended to bend and warp when it must be kept perfectly straight to get the parts to mate correctly. The air was filled with lots of the words you can’t say on television. This aggravation was minor compared to that of trying to thread the cabling through the tiny holes on the water spout, pulleys and counterweights. Some of these holes were smaller than the typical eye of a needle. I do not have a jeweler’s eyes or hands and this proved to be nearly impossible. Somehow I finally imagined to get the thread through all those tiny holes. Once this was done, I had to tie it off on the counterweights with very little thread to work with. In addition, I had to be very careful not to pull the thread out of the spout and pulley on the other end of the line while I tied these very small knots. This too proved to be almost insurmountable. What I ended up with is a structure that looks no better than one I could have bought off the shelf at my LHS and plopped down in place on the layout. The only advantage I see to buying the kit is that it makes custom painting the tank a little easier, but I have no doubt I could have hand painted the built-up kit with far less aggrav
Yeah, but then where would you go to get all your righteous indignation??? [swg]
Marklin, Lionel and MTH all make fine, high quality toy trains that work perfectly with all their associated products and accessories and they all come ready to run requiring that all you do is “snap” the track pieces together and play.
I’m sure one of these product lines will make your hobby experiance much happier, and your pockets much emptier.
I’m sorry you had such a bad experiance with these low quality, have to be assembled, scale model kits.
Building things is just not for everyone. As a Carpenter friend of mine says “if it was easy, everyone would do it”.
Sheldon
Y’see. This is why I’m constantly saying that we need to think that OTHER VALUES than the almighty dollar might help here. What of skill development? Lifelong learning? If all we are doing is looking into the billfold for our reason why we do kits and such—and all we do is rush to RTR then everyone who wants to buy kits won’t have ANY[|(]
We’ll have RTR----and its Radical Other—scratchbuilder[}:)]
So much for the so called OPEN market–as it shrinks into nothingness[soapbox]
I can see that would be frustrating BTW—I was eyeing one of those cranes that had the 2/3 winches that needed put together/wired up—I think I’ll get them and slowly work them up[:-^]
By the way Don7—he did say this was a rant—so you need not rant about a rant----just a little pre-emptive strike here[:-^][:-,]
JE:
I’ve got two of the Walthers tanks on my layout, but they were the built-ups. I’m kind of surprised that the kit would be that difficult, as most of the other Walthers kits I’ve assembled went together with no problem. But if it helps any, the thread used for the pulleys and counterweights doesn’t really work any better on the built-ups.
The one water tank kit I have is an Atlas, that I built about 8 years ago, and instead of thread, the kit came with scale chain that was a bear to install, but looks about six times better than the thread. However, the kit itself went together very well.
My eyesight isn’t that good anymore, but the more I look at the Walthers tanks, the more I think I’ll go out and get some scale chain and see if I can’t improve the looks, somehow.
Sorry it was such a bear to build.
Tom [:)]
I’m with the OP on this. I enjoy the kits that work. Accurail come to mind. But I, having a manic temper caged, am not going to waste the time to let me wrk myself up on something that I’m going to watch dissamble itself. Cough Lionel water/sanding**Cough Branchline The Walthers genral store I’m doing is quite enjoyable, as is the Globe kit in process.
I love putting structure kits together. I am still working on a Walthers City Station. I do get angry, but I am like the Hulk. You don’t want to see me get angry. I don’t turn green though[(-D]
I just turn a nice rich shade of purple and the air kind of gets a little blue around the edges—
Audrey then, in the background, goes----“Now Barry—remember your Apoplexy”!!![(-D]
I built one of these. I didn’t have problem with the frame or the pulleys, but I really didn’t like getting the 4 main sections of the tank to come together. Others may not notice it, but the bands don’t match up on mine, and it bothers the heck out of me.
Still, I’d rather put together a structure kit than plop a built-up down on my layout, I’m 50/50 on rolling stock, and frankly, I’ll take an RTR locomotive over a kit every time. Most of my autos are pre-constructed, too, but Jordan kits give me an awful lot of satisfaction.
Personnaly I like a kit regardless of the complexity or complications involved in building it. Yes they can take some time to build and be a pain at times, but you can personalize it by varying colors, weather, modify, etc., etc. and not be something you just buy.
I have noticed the price for build-ups aren’t much different than the kits in a lot of cases. It makes me wonder if the kits are priced to high and are the structure kits going to go the same way as Athearn Blue Boxes? Probably will since there was a time when steam and diesel locomotives were available in kits. As the technology advances with computer miniaturization I can see buildings controlled with them for interior and exterior lighting, sounds, etc… Probably even with miniature plasma screens at all the windows for visual effects. Who knows, the coaling tower chutes will probably operate with the sound of the coal loading or even have it actually loading even for N Scale.
Except in California, of course, where the state legislature decided that plasmas waste too much energy.
They’d probably conclude that they cause cancer, too, if you watch them for 96 hours a day. They tried doing this experiment, but found that the lab rats wouldn’t watch what’s on TV these days for more than 5 minutes.
On a serious note, I’d really be unhappy if the only structures I could buy were built-ups. You’d have to take the whole thing apart to paint and weather it properly, or to add an interior. One thing working in our favor is the relative size of the box for a kit vs. a built-up. That matters when you’re shipping stuff. For rolling stock, a kit and an RTR are about the same, but a built-up structure is much bigger, and needs more careful packaging than a kit.
I have to agree with your assessment of the appearance of the pulley and counterweights. The plastic counterweights simply are not heavy enough to make the thread hang straight down and the weights themselves hang at an angle. I am assuming that the built-ups are made from the same parts so I wouldn’t expect that they would be any different. I’ve managed to disguise that flaw somewhat by pushing the weights behind the spout support so it isn’t real obvious. That complaint is secondary to my problem with the degree of difficulty in building the kit. I agree that many Walthers kits are relatively easy to construct. The problem comes when they try to use plastic parts and thread for the fine detail. I went through the same frustration a few years ago when I built Walthers Concrete Coaling tower which had a similar system of pulleys and counterweights except it was magnified by the fact that there were multiple coal shoots each requiring the same diffic
I have that very same water tank but I haven’t built it yet. I enjoy building kits, the harder the better. I have built probably over 200 1/24 scale model cars and trucks and have learned that sometimes you just need to walk away for awhile. Once I start getting a little frustrated I just put everything down and move on to something else, like a beer. LOLOL.
I agree completely about Accurail. Aside from the time I wait for the glue to dry for the metal weight, I can throw one of their boxcars together in about 10-15 minutes. That includes the time I spent reaming the trucks, and inserting P2K wheelsets and KD couplers. I’m fine with molded on details. It sure beats having to add those details seperately as is required with more expensive kits such as Branchline.
I agree completely that you don’t get a lot of savings in this hobby with kits over RTR and built-ups. In the home improvement business, typically labor accounts for about twice the cost of the materials themselves which is what you can save with the DIY approach. You don’t realize anywhere near the sweat equity savings in the model railroading world. Probably because the labor costs for RTR and built ups are minimal because this work is done in countries where labor is dirt cheap.
If the skills I acquire from model building could be applied to other areas of my life, skill development might be a consideration, but for the life of me I can’t think of where else I could apply these skills.
As for the continued availability of kits, as long as there is a sufficient market for it, there will be suppliers. If kits disappear, it will be because buyers will have voted with their dollars what they want. Kits do offer some advantages over built-ups but I’m not sure that outweights their downside. If kits do disappear or become very limited, then kitbashing will
I’m with the O/P around 75% I do enjoy building models always have even as a kid but what frustrates the bejesus out of me is when you get these extremely small pieces that are bent. warped and twisted beyond recognition. and your supposed to work with them. Lets not even get into when structure walls are warped and twisted resembling a potato chip and you spend more time straightening things out then you do building the entire lit. My first attempt at a craftsman kit was a Branchline Water tank. I got the kit in the mail opened the box layed it all out on the kitchen table looked at all the pieces put it backin the box and sent it back. Since then my confidence has grown 200% and I have built several craftsmen kits and have guys in the club ask me to build kits for them I politely decline telling them I usually need 3 or 4 kits to build one structure. Not because I’m kit bashing but rather because I break so many pieces either out of clumsiness or frustration. If I come across a built up that I like for my railroad and it’s of a good quality like some of the Walthers or Woodland Scenics I have no problem buying them and personalizing them a bit by weathering or adding signage such as those cool miniature neon signs to individualize them. I had a late friend of mine who used to build a lot of structures for my railroad for several reason, A: he was much better at it then I was, B: It was a way we could trade favors I would do wiring & electrical on his layout and C: I have a ton of work ahead of me and some times as in this case it was time better spent working on something else on the layout. I have heard many of the master model railroaders say no one person can do everything. Work on locomotives doing repairs, decoders installations, scenery, wiring,airbrush paintng etc. So having others do things for you doesn’t make you a bad person just one who knows his limitations and knows how to use his time and money wisely.
In the end we all know the limitations of our own abilities and they show in
Alley wrote:
In the end we all know the limitations of our own abilities and they show in the end result of our work. So what would you rather have a real crappy looking kit that looks like a second grader built on your layout or a factory built up with a few of your own personal touches or not that John Q. Public will have no idea that you didn’t do much more then open a box sitting on your layout?
I agree with your thoughts completely everybody isn’t a perfect modeler and may be all thumbs when it comes to some areas of the hobby…Then you have those that have-shall we say disabilities? I know after using full use of my dominate right hand I am no longer able to do certain common things in the hobby that I once took for granted.
Take a pre built building add your detailing touch(don’t laugh I seen better kit detailers then they were kit builders),some toning down and who’s to know its not a kit built?
John,
Whether you go RTR or still dabble with a few kits, I would encourage you to consider getting an inexpensive pair of magnification visors:
The above pictured are Mascot 2.5X visors and cost around $16-18. For me, they are worth their weight in gold and I use them for kit assembly, painting, and working on/repairing locomotives. I think they will make certain aspects of your kit building MUCH more of a pleasant experience for you. Also, if you don’t already have a pair, needle-nose tweezers are a must and are very handy for handling small parts and doing tedious work - like threading holes.
Like Tom, I also substituted A-line scale chain for the stiff thread that came with my Walthers water tower. It definitely looks better, for sure. I used either 27 or 40 LPI (links per inch).
Hope that helps…
Tom