Frozen Water and Winter Steam Operations

Chemist possibly, thermodynamicist most definitely. The most modern example of steam operations in cold temperatures is the Durango & Silverton. Next time I am out that way, I will have to ask. They run trips just about every day of the year.

China still uses steam, but I am not sure what operations continue in cold climes. Most of the northern lines seem to be serviced by diesel or electric. Besides, I don’t speak Chinese.

As I am fascinated by railroad history, understanding all aspects of rail operations is of some interest, regardless of how minor it may appear to be.

There’s no “perhaps” about it. Water in the tender or tanks doesn’t freeze. I’ve fired a number of engines in bitterly cold winter conditions in Europe and Asia - and I’ve never had a problem with water freezing in the tender. What’s your experience?

What of them? If the engines remain in steam, the tenders won’t freeze. If they drop the fire, then freezing tender water is the least of their problems.

Why are you convinced? A a number of people with practical experience of steam operations in cold climates (myself included) have told you that water freezing in tenders is not a problem, yet you choose not to accept this. That makes me wonder why you bothered asking the question in the first place…

An steam loco which is “idling”, as you put it, still requires water to be put into the boiler periodically. Depending on the age and design of the loco, that may involve running an injector, a feedwater pump, or in the case of a crosshead pump, actually moving the loco. Whatever the method, it will prevent the tender contents from freezing.

Mark.

And I can guess what their answer will be. BTW, there are a number of other modern steam operations in cold temperatures part from the D&S. I’ve visited most of them over the years, never heard or seen any evidence of freezing water in tenders being a problem.

Quite a lot, although these days it’s confined to mainly industrial/logging operations. But the last time I visited China I fired an RM on a day that was so cold that my fillings all shrank and fell out - but the water in the tender and water columns didn’t freeze.

Mark.

Some years back, while the Rio Grande was still operating what is now the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, a 2-8-2 got stranded in a blizzard. The crew kept themselves (and the locomotive) from freezing by maintaining a banked fire in the firebox until rescue arrived. They then opened the drain valves on the loco and tender, quenched the fire with a few buckets of water and abandoned the loco. It was finally pulled out, and the line reopened, several weeks later.

So, if there was a real probability that a locomotive might freeze, it would be drained rather than be left to freeze up and split seams. Except in dire emergency, there would never be a valid reason to let an active locomotive cool off.

Chuck