Full Duplex Digitrax coming

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
21

jwils 1

Here is an extract of a post I made on the Siskiyou forum the part about Digitrax consisting is in red.

I did some experiments consisting two locos back to back with a NCE Power Cab and a Digitrax Zephyr.

I used a brand new Power Cab with Rev. 1.28 software and a 6 years old Digitrax Zephyr with a DT400 throttle to conduct these tests.
I also used 4 locos, 2 Atlas Dash 8-40CW without sound, equipped with two identical NCE D14SR V3.5 decoders. Also 2 other Atlas Dash 8-40CW with QSI sound were used.
The decoders on all 4 locos were left with their factory default setting, except for the address which was set to each loco cab #, the appropriate value in CV2 to insure every locos were crawling at speed step 1 and a value of 3 for acceleration and deceleration rate for every locos CV 3 and 4 respectively.

First test was with the Power Cab and the two non sound units. I made an advance consist with both locos operating back to back. The consist address was 127 and the leading loco was # 7300 and the trailing loco was # 838. I made sure the stack contained both consist bearing the cab # of each loco. This consist did not behave as I was expecting. Sure enough I could toggle back and forth between each end of the consist with the recall button however the lights did not react as I wanted. If I was using #7300 as lead loco the front light of loco 7300 was on, which is OK but the rear light of loco 838 the trailing loco was also on, which is not what I wanted and vice versa. What I wanted is only the leading loco with headlight on and the trailing completely dark. Fortunately I know my way around at the bit level of the most popular CV, I was able to correct this problem in programing the proper values in CV22, I was expecting better handling of consists from NCE. Why should I tinker with CV values?
When I did the same test with Digitrax Universal consist, everything worked as expected, trailing loco completely dark, no need to play with CV22.

Now

22

Okay, if I understand correctly, when you change the direction of travel of the consist, you are simply selecting “reverse” instead of “forward”. So now with the new leading loco leading the consist in the other direction from which is was previously moving, your throttle reads “reverse”. And you are still running speed and direction from the original lead loco number. Is that correct or am I misunderstanding?

Jerry

23

Moving coupler? Hardly realistic…

Can you please share pics of British steam locomotives that have 5 light positions in the front. I would love to see that.

David B

24

Quite correct, unless you look at the throttle display, the feel of the consist is exactly the same as with NCE.

25

much to my horror, it seems to be only 4 positions on mainline use. i think i got confused with some loco’s having the lamp on the smokebox door and others having it mounted on the smokebox above the door. loco’s usually carry the lamps on the lamp irons, so they can be in place and not lit. it is important to point out that these are marker lights used to denote the type of train.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/bellhead.htm

26

Yes, we had the same thing in North America. Now, how will you we lighting that feature? If they are like what they were over here, then there were 3 color, red, white and green. Typically modelers cannot model all 3 colors, but if they did, It would be controlled by a few upper functions (assuming you are using 3 leds) and a light box. So that is 3 functions. Your headlight is another function, but the rear light is the same function as the front headlight (F0). So that is 4 functions for the lights (again, assuming you can actually light the markers with 3 different leds).

So, to count up my functions…

F0=Forward and Rear lights

F1=Bell

F2=Whistle

F3=Short Whistle

F4=Steam Let Off

F5=Marker Light 1

F6=Marker Light 2

F7=Marker Light 3

F8=Mute

With this scheme (and assuming 3 or 4 other functions for various IMPORTANT sounds and not gimmiky sounds), you can see that you are well covered with 12 functions. I still dont see the need for 28 functions.

The offer is still there to anyone who can tell me an actual NEED for 28 functions…20 bucks…

David B

27

JMRI makes it easy to make and break consists with a few keystrokes.

I am looking forward to the new Digitrax Arrivals, they will be purchased very quickly for my road.

28

how would be led’s, if you look on youtube there are a few videos of british stuff with lights and sound and smoke. there is someone who makes a suitable looking lamp out of sub min led’s. the sting would be that they could only be one colour, so white a

29

Instead of me looking at random Youtube video to perhaps come across the one you are talking about, you could perhaps post a link?

I don’t recommend hooking up 2 decoders to one LED…Can’t be a good thing.

David B

30

Well, I am kinda partial to the fire grating being turned with F24, and the clinkers thwacking against the sides of the ash pit with F39. [:D]

I agree with you entirely, David. Mute, lights, horn, bell, and sometimes I play with steam hiss (F4 on the Tsunami’s I have). I guess diesels and modern excursion steamers would want some additional lighting control, but the majority of sound decoders provide ambient and random sounds that keep me happy, even annoyed if I forget to either mute them, set their mute levels (QSI), or tune their individual sounds with an applicable CV tweak.

-Crandell

31

so you want all the noises, but the chip decides when you get them? so random is ok?? i suppose it’s ok for some. who picks what TV channels you can watch and when you can watch them?? [:-,]

32

Even after spending months writing SDF’s to make sound context sensitive (IE: six different whistle signals on F2 depending on speed, direction of loco), And I am still out of Functions.

So, to count up my functions…

F0=Forward and Rear loco lights when stopped, passenger train lights when moving.

F1=Moving - Bell On/Off, (Bell auto off when stopped) Stopped - Station announcement (Zone dependent)

F2=Stopped - Two toots when FWD, three in REV, Playable over SPD30, crossing under SPD29 single toot automatic on stop.

F3=Couple coupler clash trigger, uncouple (Uncouple causes passenger cars/cabooses to stop listening to loco cmds)

F4=Steam Let Off when stopped, Doppler, echo or tunnel when moving (Zone dependent)

F5=Markers - When set to ON and stopped FWD set to white, REV set to green. When set to off and stopped, set to red (on/off with F0) When moving, operates loco specific accessory.

F6=Cab light when stopped, Smoke Enable when moving (auto off when stopped)

F7=Toggle next turnout - FWD ahead, REV behind last car.

F8=Stooped FWD increase volume REV decrease volume, Moving-Wheel squeal

F9 Learn Mode

F10 Stop at Ruby Springs

F11 Stop at Mill Creek

F12 Stop at Peach Falls

In Learn Mode:

      • F10 Learn Max speed for this Zone
      • F11 Learn Signal at this position.
      • F12 Reset all Learned Speed limits and memorize Home.

As you can see, I am limited to just three stations per loco, and, I have to basically use the F9 key as a “shift” function. And 3/4 of the “gimic” sounds are not accessable.

HECK YES

28 functions for me.

As to duplex, well. I could give a rats behind for acquiring locos wirelessly… In fact I hope they allow an option to prevent it.

Will I want Duplex. YOU BET, for the Transponding “Find” function, CV read-back, semaphore display and throttle m

33

I thought it was funny when I read it. But I can see whole new dimension for those who want to reproduce a certain scene from Blazing Saddles on their layouts.

[swg]

Irv

34

Reports on the Digitrax Yahoo group suggest that F28 is coming with this release.

35

bobgrosh,
In order:

F0: I assume you’re MU’ing you DCC decoder equipped passenger cars to your locos. I hope you know that it doesn’t make sense for the passenger car lights to have anything to do with movement. Also, loco headlights are not always used, depending on era.

F1: Um, bells also ring on locos when stopped, depending on road and era. And onboard station annoucements? Seriously? You really want to broadcast the sound of an onboard station announcement, something that you never hear from outside the train?

F2: I can only imagine that little effect in a yard switcher. It’d be a toot-fest for sure. And on mainline trains, wildly unrealistic. A crossing whistle for under 29?

F3: What is that about? Passenger cars and cabooses would stop listening to…what?

F4: This, I get.

F5: Huh? But markers are for when the train is moving, too.

F6: Diesels and steamers also smoke while stopped.

F7: Toggle turnouts? What the heck for? Just use the SWITCH command…that’s what it’s there for.

F8: Wouldn’t it be better if you could adjust the volume on the move?

F9: Learn mode? What is that? How does that work? Do you have GPS in each loco?

F10, F11, F12: Again, station annoucements? Here’s a thought. Why don’t you put a sound playing device at each station? That way, you can remove some of the features needed from a mobile decoder. In any event, I have ridden a lot of trains over the years, and while I’ve heard conductor’s say that they are a “Canton Jct. train” or an “Attleboro train”, I’ve never heard them say the station name for where they are. Most people assume that since they are already there, they know where they are. Conductors will call on the train that they have arrived at a station, but I’ve never heard it from outsid

36

[quote user=“Paul3”]

bobgrosh,
In order:

F0: I assume you’re MU’ing you DCC decoder equipped passenger cars to your locos. I hope you know that it doesn’t make sense for the passenger car lights to have anything to do with movement. Also, loco headlights are not always used, depending on era.

No, each car has it’s own address… It makes no sense to me to turn on/off the loco lights once moving. So when moving, F0 starts the lights coming on through the length of the train as though the crew was turning them on. This is normally only used at dawn or dusk, and prevents burning up bulbs by having them on all the time.

F1: Um, bells also ring on locos when stopped, depending on road and era. And onboard station annoucements? Seriously? You really want to broadcast the sound of an onboard station announcement, something that you never hear from outside the train?

On steamers with hand operated bells, the bell goes off shortly after a stop. For mechanical bells, the go off after a minute or so.

If you are thinking of the station master arrival, departures, and ambient sounds, those come from a track-side speaker (look up “Fantasonics”) system. The on board sound cards in passenger cars do play conductor and passenger boarding and debarking sounds. Doors opening, luggage shuffling, Children when they first spot “grandma”, etc. and yes, you can hear them. especially on the open air coaches.

F2: I can only imagine that little effect in a yard switcher. It’d be a toot-fest for sure. And on mainline trains, wildly unrealistic. A crossing whistle for under 29?

Perhaps I was unclear. If you don’t press the F2 button you don’t get a toot. If you want two short toots to alert the crew that you are about to move the loco forward, just make sure the loco direction is set to forward, and press F2 once. For the prototypical three toots for backing up. just set the directi

37

Wait a minute, the 20 bucks requires that you are able to recall every function up to and including 28. Also, every function has to have universal appeal, not silly things like lighting up passenger coaches…

Anyways, last time I checked, the Digitrax SFX (the decoder this person is using) is limited to 4 light outputs and just enough sound storage for engine noises (no room yelling at grandma and such).

I still dont see the need for 28 functions.

My rules…

  1. You have to be able to remember them.

  2. They need to have universal appeal (be applicable to more than one application and able to be applicable as a standard ala NMRA).

  3. Door closing and toilet flushed dont count.

  4. Automatic noises dont count (nood need to turn the compressor on and off when it is an automatic function).

David B

38

OK, Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGp-ChboAHk

That is my smallest loco.

It has a SFX064D

The newer version has FOUR times as much memory.

That loco has all the chuff, boiler, hiss, brake, cab chatter, (the engineere calls out the mile markers) bell, crossing whistle, one two and three toots,

PLUS The entire rendition of Dixie featured in the video.

The SX064 has SIX lighting outputs. Plus 18 sound functions.

The Loco was to small for the current “G” scale decoder, So I had to use an older one without transponding. The motor decoder has 8 function outputs.

Because neither the SFX064 nor the motor decoder has Transponding, the loco has a TF4, Thats 4 more lighting outputs.

So It has a total of 16 function outputs for smoke, lghts and couplers plus 18 trigerable sounds for a total of 34 functions.

OK, so most of those do not need to be controled from the throttle, In fact I ran out of things to connect the wires to, there are at least 6 unused wires. And I’m using four of them just for firebox and smokestack flicker. I was also runing out of room, there are three speakers. The motor decoder had to be cut in half and folded to fit it in the firebox.

39

what he said… if he was for lots of functions?? [soapbox]