I’m considering saving up and looking for a brass piece made by Gem. I was wondering if anybody has one of these and could tell me what to expect as to running performance. The high price tag scares me, but nobody else makes the loco I am looking for. I am not buying this to ‘collect’, rather to run as much as possible.
Btw, headlights are important to me, is it likely a brass model made by Gem would have a bright headlight or no?
I have a GEM 0-4-0 camelback I bought back in the 80s. It has a grain of wheat headlight which is fairly bright, but no back-up light.
It is nicely detailed, but is very light and the motor doesn’t have a flywheel. It has trouble pulling its own tender on anything more than a 1% grade![(-D]
I’m planning on upgrading it to DCC, adding as much weight as I can and re-powering it with a flywheel motor. But that is way down on my to-do list.
-George
I assumed (wrongly I suppose) that brass engines were already pretty hefty, not requiring extra weight.
I’m trying to track down a gem 6-4-4-6. I’m not that concerned about adding DCC, and I will never try to add sound. I just hope that paying over $1,000 will be worth it for something that can run decently out of the box, I don’t want to pay that much for a display piece.
I’m not expecting great slow speed performance obviously, but I hope gem models aren’t too jerky all around, I want something that at least runs well at moderate to fast speeds and that doesn’t lock up.
Gem has been importing locos for many years. The early ones were made mostly for collectors & had an open frame motor & didn’t run very well. Some of the newer models have can motors & gearboxes. Really depends on the age of the model you are considering. They usually only pick up power from 1 side of the engine & 1 side of the tender which also contributes to poor running.
ANother thing to watch out for on older brass is often the boiler weight was shipped seperately in the box and not installed. If buying second or third-hand, if the previous owner(s) never ran it, they may not have installed the weight and it may have been lost. Or even with the weight, it may have poor balance. Just because the loco is heavy doesn’t mean it will pull well, if the weight is too far forward or too far back. The location of the weight in a steam loco is as important as the amount of weight.
This is almost certainly not going to be something you cna just take out of the box and put on the rails and have the most awesome running loco you ever owned. It will probably take some tweaking and TLC to get optimum performance, but with some work you can indeed have a very fine running model. Then you get to take it all apart and paint it…
–Randy
Gem isn’t the only one who sold a 6-4-4-6 in HO, if that’s the scale you’re looking for. Just from a quick search, I’ve also found a couple by Olympia and Sunset. As far as I know, all of them should be at least pretty good.
As for the weight of brass, many of them have plenty of weight, but they’re poorly balanced. The boiler is usually hollow and has room for more weight. If new motors are needed, there are plenty of inexpensive options out there. And if new gears are also needed, NWSL makes gearboxes for just about anything.
rjake, I would just advise you to give a lot of careful thought to such an expensive purchase if it is your intension to have this loco as an operating model on your layout. Assuming that you are looking at the Gem PRR S-1, keep in mind that this is a 45 year old model from quite early in the history of imported brass. I have a number of Gem models in my collection and, although I like the looks of most of them, I wouldn’t expect to get anything like the degree of smooth operation we’ve come to expect today without a lot of tweaking and quite likely a re-motoring job.
CNJ831
My bad, I thought Olympia and Gem were the same. I’m completely new to brass. O scale from what I have seen on youtube has excellent lighting, can the same be said for HO?
Gem imported many locos over the years, made by several companies in Japan. I have a Gem/Olympia PRR H10s Consolidation. I added a ton of weight, to the point where it is almost riding on its springs, and it is the quietest and smoothest loco I own. I have done nothing to the motor or mechanism. The thing has excellent detail, and tracks extremely well. If your S1 is of the same manufacture, you’ll have a winner.
Edit: My bad, maybe. My H10s Is by Olympia.
I have a number of Gem Reading loco’s. The camel backs are “good” runners. They will benefit from a little more wieght on the small switchers.
Isn’t Olympia the “high end” of Gem? I could be wrong on this. They have more detail than the regular Gem and would cost more. The Sunset mentioned above is likely to be a newer release of this locomotive.
I have never owned a Gem model, but I do have several brass engines from various manufacturers. All of them came with extra weight in the boiler and I would expect yours would, too. Don’t be put off by the performance of the aforementioned camelback 0-4-0. An engine that small is handicapped in a way your 6-4-4-6 won’t be. You should have plenty of traction and excellent electrical pickup with an engine that large.
Regarding the headlight: my guess is it won’t have one. You may have to install your own, which might require some drilling and wiring. Not a big deal.
Your comment about DCC not being a problem can be taken two ways: either it is easy for you or you don’t intend to use it. Either way, no problem. However, if you want the best possible performance, I recommend you do install DCC and, if necessary, remotor and regear. Those are not difficult improvements and if you want to get the most out your $1,000 investment, why not go all out?
I don’t know if Olympia and Gem are the same, but I guess they could be. I know AHM and IHC were basically the same company, and had the same owner, so it’s happened before. Some importers will import models from the same manufacturer, and sometimes even the same model. I think Samhongsa and Ajin have had at least half a dozen companies selling their products.
As for lighting, I think most older brass steam engines (like before the 90s) had unpowered headlights. I could be wrong though. Accurate Lighting and Miniatronics make good lighting products, and I think M V Products is about the best for headlight and marker light lenses.
I have two Gem/Olympia PRR H10s (one from 1970, and one from 1966 or 68), an N1 2-10-2, and a B6 0-6-0. None of them run very well at all. They are open frame and jerk and stall like a Tyco from the same time period. The detail, however, is great, except the 2-10-2, which has a crooked sand dome. I’ve tried putting a can motor in one of the 2-8-0s, but the space is very narrow and it’s tough to find any motors less than 13mm. There’s also no room for a flywheel. They do have gearboxes, though.
I also have a couple of WSM (Westside) models from the same time or slightly newer. These have can motors and run well with very little stalling and no jerking. The biggest issue with these is the 2-10-2 doesn’t like 24 inch radius. I have a P2K 2-10-2 that I’m considering donating the chaisis to one of the brass pieces. It does 24 inch just fine, and it has sound and dual rail pickup
All of my “Gems” say both Gem and Olympia somewhere on either the model, the box, or the build and date card.
Be aware that builder and importer may be different as well. Most Gem is Samhongsa, but they built for other importers. I used to know who built the majority of WSM, but it escapes me. I should remember, as I feel these are the best bargain brass around.
I’ve seen the S2 turbine go for $500-$600 a couple of times on ebay. I’ve been tempted myself, although I would not expect it to run well, or negotiate “medium” curves at all.
I didn’t pay more than $225 for any of those, and certainly would not pay $1000 for anything made by samhongsa. If it was $600 and by the maker of Westside, I’d probably do it. I have no experience with Key or Sunset, but know they are usually much more expensive.
Westside’s main manufacturers were Samhongsa, Katsumi, and Nakamura. I have one of the Samhongsa steam engines (a modern PRR 4-4-0), and it is the smoothest running steam engine I’ve ever owned.[:D] If the Gem 6-4-4-6 was made by Samhongsa, I wouldn’t expect anything less than a super smooth runner with excellent detail. It would probably need to have a headlight bulb added, but that’s really pretty easy for streamlined steam engines like the S-1 6-4-4-6. Shoot! Now I want one![}:)]
I just looked up some pics of the gem prr s-2 turbine, man that thing is gorgeous! There is one listing on ebay right now for $950, so far no bids.
I really wish I lived near denver Colorado, then I could visit Caboose Hobbies and actually see the beautiful brass pieces for myself, and maybe test run them. Unfortunately, I live in near Philadelphia, PA and nobody sells brass trains around here. Nobody. [sigh]
With brass it is always a hit or miss, once ran three different ones at a LHS all the same and all ran differently, Even with today’s engines you can get different quality, I have 8 Spectrum 0-6-0’s and most run differently (bought a case so a couple were probably made by the same people at the same time so that may be why some run the same).
Mitchell’s just across the line in Delaware used to have a great selection of brass, but I understand they’ve closed!
-George
There are two successor stores, one of which is trains. See their web site http://mitchells.com/
Enjoy
Paul
Caboose Hobbies and The Caboose are also good places to find used brass trains. I have bought several narrow gauge pieces from Caboose Hobbies. Dans Train Dept down in Florida is also an excellent source, he sells both on his website and on ebay. He also publishes the Brass Guide book, basicly the sucessor to the Brown Book of Brass Trains that is quite out of date for newer models, but with the fallout in the brass market, the prices are actualy quite close to what models are actualy selling for. Many ask higher, but those models are mostly sitting on shelves growing dust. If you dont mind tinkering, sometimes added extra weight or upgrading an old open frame to a can motor. Older brass trains can be a real bargain and run exceptionaly well.
I once saw a Gem S1 run in about 1975. The holes for the axles were not in the exact center of some of the drivers, and the boiler would rise and fall enough to be noticeable on every wheel revolution. I was not impressed.
Palmer Smith, the LHS owner in Lancaster, PA said that Gem engines were not so good, and did not sell them.
PFM and Westside engines were good engines.