Well, Walthers Proto and Athearn Genesis both produce the F7 and the F3 in red and silver Warbonnet colors. So, you cannot go wrong no matter which brand you choose. I have the Athearn Genesis in both the F3 and the F7, and they are both great performers and highly detailed locos.
I have several Walthers Proto diesels but not an F3 or F7. I may be wrong, but I cannot imagine that the Walthers Proto F3 or F7 would not perform as well as their other diesels.
Rich
Athearn Genesis has always manufactured a very nice line of diesels, but from all that I have heard and read, the same cannot be said for their steam engines.
Rich
According to the vendor that I will be using, modeltrainstuff.com, the Proto comes with Tsunami sound.
Now that you are talking F units, then you cant go wrong with either mfg.
I was going to let you know that the QSI sound-set for the 567 is inferior to the Tsunami, but Walthers is now stuffing their locos with Tsunamis as well now.
Remember that the Tsunami requires tweeking to get a smooth start, and there are many equalizer settings you can play with to optimize the speaker.
QSI decoders have better motor control…like silk…but their sound files are short-cutted.
Anyways, the Tsunami will put a smile on your face every time you notch up and down!
David B
When Walthers first acquired Proto from Life Like, they started adding sound, using QSI decoders. I have some of those units.
More recently, Walthers Proto has begun using Tsunami sound.
On the Walthers web site, Tsunami is specifically mentioned for the Santa Fe F7. The web site is silent on the Walthers Proto Santa Fe F3, so my guess is that the F3 uses the older QSI sound decoder.
Rich
For what it is worth, I just received an ABBA set of Proto 2000 ATSF F7’s (the ones for the El Capitan). The shade of red for the warbonnet is way darker than I expected - couple of shades darker than my Genesis F3s. I have been going through my color photograghs trying to figure out if the color could be correct, but it sure looks weird.
John - Welcome to trains.com! [C):-)]
I have 2 Athaern Genesis SD70ACes with DCC/Tsunami and 2 Athaern Genesis F45s with DCC/Tsunami. Absolutely love them and they run great on my NCE DCC system. I am relatively new to DCC, learned a lot in the last several months. As with all DCC, clean, level track is critical. That said, I have had a problem with an Athearn Genesis F7 A / B set with DCC/Tsunami - I bought the A-B set, ran on my layout and had problems with the A unit, it sputtered in 2 locations, one a turnout, on my layout SPORADICALLY. The B unit and all my other DCC locos had no issues. I cleaned the track in these 2 areas multiple times. I had read in an article that some Athearn Genesis locos had experienced issue with overlubrication from the manufacturing process causing contact issues. I am not sure if that was the issue with this particular F7A, but being a brand new loco and no other loco I ran having this problem, I decided to return the F7A/B and received a refund. Also - when I was closely examining the trucks on these locos, it seemed that there was a lot of play between the siderails - maybe I just got a bad unit. Since that time, I just purchased a Proto 2000 F7A/B set with DCC/Tsunami. I have been running on my layout for several days - runs great, no issues,very pleased, coupler boxes are tricky to install - just takes patience, only thing I am exploring is sound volume - my other locos are louder, even with the CV volume settings on the Proto 2000 to max, I would like the the airhorn and engine exhaust sound levels to be even louder. This was the case with the SD70ACe and found an article from Athearn to change mixer CV settings / levels and that made a huge difference, thinking of using these settings on the Proto 2000
I have two pairs of Athearn Genesis F7AB units in the Warbonnet colors and two sets of BLI Blueline F7AB units in the Warbonnet colors. All 8 units appear to match one another in the red color. I wonder if Walthers Proto got it wrong.
Rich
David makes a great point here which I have repeated over, and over, and over on this forum.
It is impossible to judge this stuff BY THE BRAND - every company has had a few duds, every company has some big winners that are truely exceptional models. And with all this China production, one product from brand X may come from one supplier and the next product from a different one.
I model the transition era - so if you ask me about EMD F units, I’m going to say Athearn Genesis and Intermountain are the best in terms of both detail and running quality.
I can’t say ANYTHING about any other Genesis diesel - most are out of my era, and I don’t own any of the others.
Proto made/makes great stuff, in fact most of my diesel fleet is OLDER Proto stuff, ALCO FA’s, PA’s, EMD GP7’s, BL2’s, E8’s, etc.
BUT I only own one set of Proto F7’s and I will never buy any more - because of their crazy gear ratio choice and because I freelance and the undecorated version only comes with a late modernized shell - does not fit my era.
There is a big habit amoung humans to judge product brand based on their own limited exposure to just one or two products. That’s OK but it often does not reflect the overall “result” from that manufacturer.
Much better to ask about a specific product - and get specific feedback on its quality and performance.
Why take advice from the guy who bought that companies dud, when the piece you are interested in may be the best thing they ever did - or viice versa?
Another example - I would not give a red cent for a B
I asked my wife to compare the colors. She called the proto2000 shade “maroon”. I wonder if I can send them back?
[quote user=“ATLANTIC CENTRAL”]
davidmbedard:
Because no one else has asked, and have offered useless advice, WHICH LOCOS ARE YOU THINKING OF?
Both Proto and Genesis locos have a history and variation in builds. It would be best to ask something like…“I am interested in a GP9 with sound, which loco should I buy? Proto or Genesis?”
David B
David makes a great point here which I have repeated over, and over, and over on this forum.
It is impossible to judge this stuff BY THE BRAND - every company has had a few duds, every company has some big winners that are truely exceptional models. And with all this China production, one product from brand X may come from one supplier and the next product from a different one.
I model the transition era - so if you ask me about EMD F units, I’m going to say Athearn Genesis and Intermountain are the best in terms of both detail and running quality.
I can’t say ANYTHING about any other Genesis diesel - most are out of my era, and I don’t own any of the others.
Proto made/makes great stuff, in fact most of my diesel fleet is OLDER Proto stuff, ALCO FA’s, PA’s, EMD GP7’s, BL2’s, E8’s, etc.
BUT I only own one set of Proto F7’s and I will never buy any more - because of their crazy gear ratio choice and because I freelance and the undecorated version only comes with a late modernized shell - does not fit my era.
There is a big habit amoung humans to judge product brand based on their own limited exposure to just one or two products. That’s OK but it often does not reflect the overall “result” from that manufacturer.
Much better to ask about a specific product - and get specific feedback on its quality and performance.
Why take advice from the guy who bought that companies dud,
Rich, that was just a quick example in a complex question in an already long post.
But actually, my Bachmann steam consists of Spectrum mostly and one regular line loco.
I have:
2-6-6-2’s - both versions
USRA Heavy 4-8-2’s both C&O and other versions, some with tender swaps
4-6-0’s with tender swaps
2-8-4’s (regular line loco) - convered to 2-8-2’s and some with tender swaps
2-8-0’s
All the swaped tenders are other Bachmann tenders, and many of my steam locos of other brands now have Bachmann tenders - even my two brass Pacifics.
I have multiple copies of all of these locos and would highly recommend them to anyone.
I also have Bachmann GE 44 and 70 tonners, and doodlebugs, but no other Bachmann diesels.
Sheldon
I agree 100% with Sheldon’s post regarding Spectrum steam.
The GER’s steam fleet is mainly Spectrum with multiple copies of the 2-10-0, 2-8-0 and light and heavy 4-8-2. I have one each of the P2K 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 switchers and three re-branded “President’s Choice” in Canada, IHC 2-10-2s.
I also, unfortunately, purchase two Genesis 2-8-2s and 4-6-2s. Three of which suffered from split gear syndrome and Athearn refused to honour their warranty using the poor excuse that parts were no longer available. This all about a year after they were purchased at a price of Can$250 each. Needless to say, I was and still am not impressed and have never purchased an Athearn product since. I repaired all three and took preventative action on the fourth and, after much tinkering to get them to pull any appreciable train length and to get them to stay on the track, they finally deserved a place on the GER working roster. Whether they will still work when they are taken out of storage is another hurdle I may have to overcome.
Like Sheldon, many of my locos have had tender swaps and tender kit-bashes as well as various other kit-bashes to give them all a family look and to make them look more Canadian.
I have, still in their boxes, several of the large and small drivered Spectrum 4-6-0s and two of the new Alco 2-6-0s. The latter two have been test run on a friends model railroad and although lacking in a lot of detail, they are very sweet runners and the sound is quite acceptable.
Sorry, I cannot.
Some of my Spectrum steamers border on “junk”. Of the five that I originally purchased, Bachmann wound up replacing two of them. Another runs and looks like a toy. Another is way too light in the tender. The one Spectrum that I really like is a 2-6-6-2. I will take BLI over Spectrum any day.
Rich
I also purchased the Proto ATSF F7’s. As you mentioned I was surprised at how dark the red is. For what its worth, my LHS also has a set a Walthers Super Chief F3’s. The red on the F3’s seem to match the red on the El Cap F7’s. It doesn’t bother me much, considering this is my first ATSF purchase, and I have nothing else that it will conflict with. In my opinion it almost looks like a weathered red.
I also have a set of Genesis WP FP7’s. I prefer some of the details on that model. But I am happy with both companies, especially now that Walthers has moved onto Tsunami decoders. I have a few QSI installed engines, and to be honest I can not stand the sound they produce.
Rich, we have been down this road before, remind me which Spectrum locos you had trouble with? I don’t think it was any on my roster list?
The original K4’s had problems - all fixed in the newer ones.
The N&W J has a few weak points, requiring some modeling skills to bring it up to par.
The 2-10-2’s run nice, but maybe could pull a little more if they has as good a suspension as the 4-8-2.
The shays and climaxes had some bad batches, but many people have copies of those that have held up fine.
The Russian is a weak puller because of its size, but runs well.
Gets back to my original point - not every loco from a given manufacturer is perfect - but if you want a 4-8-2, it’s hard to beat the Spectrum model.
BLI - my two BLI heavy Mikados were both junk - and BLI could not and would not fix them, replace them or sell me parts that actually fit. I had to buy the wrong parts from, because they have been made by four different venders, and rebuild the parts, so I could rebuild the locos, so I could have two USRA heavy Mikes, which I paid good money for in the first place.
My PCM (BLI’s other name) Reading T1’s both need minor mods to run good and came missing parts which took three requests to get.
Again, back to my POINT - I did not recomme
I think the point is well taken that you have to consider not only a line of loco’s from a manufacturer, but individual model lines. Some have “panned” Genesis due to bad luck with some dud’s, and to be far, Proto 2000 has had some dud’s over the years too.
Since the original poster mentioned F units, that narrows the topic down to something we can look at specifically so I consider much of the discussion of other stuff basically “off topic” and derailing this thread into something else - good grief, we are not talking about Spectrum Steam and such - which is pretty far off the orignal poster’s question.
I’ll stand by my comments that Proto 2000 makes some lovely F units and so does Genesis. If you get the recently run version, both companies have dropped their former sound boards and gone with Tsunami. If you want sound, MAKE SURE you get a P2K or Genesis with Tsunami sound.
I own 12 Genesis F units and they are very nicely painted and proportioned.
-F3ABBA set single stripe D&RGW
-F3A rebuilt to F9m specs D&RGW single stripe
-F9ABB single stripe D&RGW RGZ set (#5771, 5762, 5763)
-F9AB single stripe D&RGW (#5774, 5773)
-F7A single stripe D&RGW (#5764) used on the California Zephyr
-FP7A California Zephyr Western Pacific
From Proto 2000
-F7ABBA set single stripe D&RGW (#5671,5672,5673,5764) came with QSI sound =(
The so called Spectrum K4 was not really a true Spectrum engine but just the previous typical Botchmann with a few improvements made to it and added to the Spectrum line. Even MR, in a fit of unusual honesty when it comes to reviewing a major advertiser’s product, actually commented on the fact that it was not really a new Spectrum engine but simply a slightly improved “standard” model.
I still stand by my comments regard the some two dozen Spectrum engine I have, they are all excellent models. Yes, some don’t pull well at first but what do you expect? These are not diesels but steam locomotives. It’s to be expected that you will need to add weight and do a little tweaking. Everybody knows, or should know that. Trouble is, these days the “model” part of “model railroading” has slipped as nobody wants to put any effort into getting models to run that little bit better than when they came out of the box.
Steam, all steam, needs added weight. A fairly easy fix, if you are creative. Many tenders have issues with the front trucks derailing due to the wiring harness being out of position. Another simple fix by adjusting the harness and adding a little weight to the front of the tender. Another issue with steam is manufacturer’s insistence on putting pressure springs on trucks. Bad idea as the spring not only pushed down but also pushes up, it’s a law of physics, so by removing the spring(s) you will improve pulling power. When I removed the springs from my 2-10-0s, they were able to pull two extra freight cars over what they pulled right out of the box.
So, tweaking of steam is to be expected.
Sheldon, I took exception to rogertra’s statement that he agreed that Spectrum is a fine manufacturer of HO scale steam engines.
I had a Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain (C&O) that I sent back to Bachmann for repair because the copper pickup fingers were getting jammed in the driver wheels and breaking off. That was an awful design. Bachmann said it had no parts for the 4-8-2 any longer and deemed it unrepairable. So I wound up with a 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain (ICRR), a road name that I didn’t want and sold it on eBay.
The more egregious example was a 4-8-2 Light Mountain (UP) which I not so fondly nicknamed Thumper. I returned this loco to Bachmann four times for repairs before it was finally declared unrepairable. The first two times, it simply sto