Getting from prototype to track plan

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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I’m brand ne to railroading. I want to focus on the N&W line during the the 1940 to 950 time frame. My ultimate goal is to be able to recreate the Powhatan Arrow. I have followed the froums and got my hands on a number of books recommended in many threads. I was able to come up with a schedule and a very simple drawing of the Arrow’s line including the stations and stops along the line. I also have a simple diagram of the eIevations along the line. I am getting ready to contact the NW historic society, but before I do I need some help.

Since this is my first attempt, I was thinking about trying to find a layout from one of the layout books (Atlas, 101 layouts, etc.) and try to make it work. Once I have a little more expereince I could then start customizing.

Its not clear how to get from the simple track and elevation diagram to an actual track layout.

I don;t know what kind of info I should be asking the NW society for. Since I live on the west coast, I don;t really have the ability to go to Virginia to see first hand. Thanks

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Welcome to the hobby!

Unfortunately, this will probably not lead to a satisfying layout. Most of those layouts date from the 1950s and 1960s and the basic premise is to cram as much track as possible into a given space, which detracts from realism. Kalmbach’s newer publication, 102 Realistic Track Plans, has many more recent layout design approaches from the last ten years of Kalmbach magazines.

Those newer ideas, such as staging, are felt by many to provide a better overall layout experience.

John Arnstrong’s book Track Planning for Realistic Operation is an excellent resource for designing your own layout. You will also find many examples of layouts derived from prototype inspiration in Kalmbach’s Model Railroad Planning annual special issues. There was a fine N scale N&W layout focused on a segment of the N&W Pocahantas Division featured in the 2002 issue, for example.

Many of these M

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Welcome to the hobby, Powhatan Fan!

I had a quick look for some basic information on the Powhatan Arrow, to get a rough idea what we are talking about.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powhatan_Arrow, it seems like the Powhatan Arrow was a passenger train that ran from Norfolk, Virginia, to Cincinnati, Ohio, a distance of about 777 miles, which took about 15 hours to run.

So, obviously, as Byron pointed out, you won’t have the space to model the whole line true to scale, no matter if you want to model in H0 scale (1:87.1), N scale (1:160) or Z scale (1:220) :slight_smile:

Let’s start by looking at the train itself. According to the Wikipedia entry, the Powhatan Arrow ran from 1946 until 1969, and was at it’s peak in 1949, with the delivery of new streamlined cars.

A little confusingly worded, a section describes cars used in this way: “The consist for the new Powhattan Arrow included two 48-seat coaches with crew room (P1 class, #501 and #502), two 66-seat divided coaches (P2 class, #511 and #512), ten 56-seat coaches (P3 class #531–540), four 36-seat dining cars (D1 class, #491–494), and two lounge-tavern-observation cars (P4 class, #581 and #582). Some of the P3 and two of the D1 cars were for the Pocohantas.”

I am going to make the assumption that this was two complete equipment sets for the Powhattan Arrow (a 15 hour run each way would not allow the train to get back to it’s starting point to start a new run at the same time next day), plus a few cars for the Pocahantas.

So, let’s assume, just for the sake of making some fairly concrete calculations, that you might want your prototype-like or prototype-similar train to have a J class engine, a 48-seat P1 class coach with a crew room, a 66 seat P2 coach divided coach, three 56 P3 class 56 seat coaches, one 36-seat D1 class dining car and one P4 class lounge-ta

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hi,

I do not want to disturb you any more, but building a nice layout has to do with the choices you will have to make.

Lets assume you have a nice long 100 feet long mainline in HO on your layout, not even two scale miles, but it will take a 25 x 13 feet room. When your Arrow is doing 30 miles a hour, the run will take 3 minutes. Lets say the Arrow was run twice a day , and when you run both east and west bounds you will have 12 minutes of fun. Not quite a great operating session.

Tony Koester’s NKP layout has enough length, although he has a much larger room he had to double and even tripple deck his plan to get his 500 feet in. Beside letting his slower freight trains do some switching, what is making their runs even more longer.

Lots of modelrailroaders with limited space choose modeling the wayfreight. So they can have a trick that can easily last an hour, but hardly takes any distance.

Beides all this there is the hard stuff. A 80 feet coach is 10.5 inch long in HO. Multiply by 3 and your desired radius will be 30". Is such a radius possible in your space? A 25 x 15 room would do for a 100 feet long main on a single deck layout.

The size of your space, the scale you choose and the kind of railroading you want can’t be seen as independent.

QUOTE: " Since this is my first attempt, I was thinking about trying to find a layout from one of the layout books (Atlas, 101 layouts, etc.) and try to make it work. Once I have a little more expereince I could then start customizing."

Starting small is a good idea. The Atlas collection is about the worst lot I’ve ever seen. You can better start with a small piece of the N&W; it is called a LDE (Layout Design Element) or Building Block. Pick one of the of smal

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To all

This is the kind of info I was hoping to get. I am getting a sense of the questions I need to ask myself before I run out and buy stuff. Thanks for taking the time to walk me through the thinking process. Even though its daunting, I like the fact that it is more than just opening a box and rolling out the layout.

Based on all of your recommendations, I have started to think about the next round of activities I need to focus on. It may be that it makes sense to start with some of the freight activities of N&W, particularly their coal hauling, with the intention of moving to where I want to be in the long term.

We’re moving into a house where I can use one of the three garage bays for my layout, but I have to start here small. I love the detail, watching the trains go by slowly so it will be HO.

So for now, I need to go away figure out some things and come back with my givens and druthers.

Thanks again for all the info

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Holy cows - that was quite a layout! N scale in a 21 x 27 foot area, three levels, with one of the heftiest staging systems I have seen outside the actual train room - six levels of staging, with six tracks on each level, connected to a helix, which also connects to the three levels of the visible layout. Main yard on visible layout (Williamson, W.Va) has about 15 or 16 tracks, each about 15 feet long.

I can see why the article was named “Capturing the immensity of prototype railroading”. Of course, coal trains rolling out of the Appalachians back in the transition era were pretty big creatures.

A couple of other track plans which may be of interest to PowhatanFan, given H0 and garage sized space (about 10 x 20 feet) available are:

Model Railroader, May 2009: “Baltimore and Ohio, Shenandoah Subdivision” - link to track plan database (open for current subscribers to Model Railroad Magazine): http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=3109

Great Model Railroads 2002 (and 102 Realistic Track Plans): “Coal Belt Railroad” (freelanced/protolanced layout): http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1508. The latter plan is placed back in 1910/1920 or so, when trains were shorter than they later became.

Back issues of magazines can be found here:

Model Railroader Magazine: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=bi&id=6<

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As an aside, have you noticed that MTH HO is releasing the Arrow this coming summer?

Here is the PDF catalog you can download

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I’m an N&W modeler, and my layout covers a specific 37 mile section of the Radford Division between Radford, VA and Narrows, VA in 1968. This time period was a couple of years before passenger service was stopped on the N&W, so the Pocahontas still operates on my schedule (though no Arrow).

I knew I loved the N&W before I started, and I knew a real N&W layout would be a monster project for which I didn’t have the space – one basement simply would not be enough. So I focused on one point and went from there.

My concept was born from an old MR article featured in a MR track plan anthology. The original article was called “Class 1 for one man” and featured a 10x14 layout centered on a small division point yard with most of the layout being staging. This allowed many, many trains to run past one point in the right combination to achieve a Class 1 type timetable.

I focused on the small town of Narrows, VA, which was a point where the Whitethorne District (former VGN trackage added via the 1959 merger) joins the trackage which comprised the original N&W mainline. That spot was small enough in scale to think about modeling it in my 20 x 25 foot basement without having to double deck. I came up with a track arrangement I liked for the junction (that modeled area is about 4x16 feet) and then added staging areas to the plan such that I could store enough types of trains to simulate the timetable as of 1968 – I was able to get ahold of the actual document through the NWHS. John Armstrong’s book was of invaluable help.

Along the way I had to come to a tough decision about curve radii. I selected the 1968 era so that I could (a) buy lots of diesel equipment which is much cheaper than steam (even though I love the old A class and Y class); and (b) so that the diesel equipment would let me sharpen my radii

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What scale do you run in? For me, it is all about the classic steam engines. So many good comments on the post. One day I will be able to run the Arrow while I work the coal. I’d love to see your track plan if you’re willing to share. Thanks

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Judged by his comment on 26" radius curves, he (or she) is modeling in H0 scale.

That layout probably is far bigger than the 5x10 you are thinking about - the part intended as the active part of the layout seems to be 4 x 16 feet long, plus a staging part (or possibly two staging parts) that probably are far bigger - the whole thing fits into a 20 x 25 foot basement.

Smile,
Stein