I’m painting 3 heavy weight C&O passenger cars in the Green George Washington
theme
Friends tell me i should use some gloss coat before appling the decals
but no one has said how much
1 coat ? 2?
then to give them a coat of dull coat when finished
so how many coats ?
TIA
Enough to make it glossy. That may sound glib, but we don’t know what you’re using. The goal is have a smooth glossy finish to apply the decals to. If you’re going to use Glosscote (in a can) it might only take 1 or 2 coats, something else might take more. But the old rule still stands, more light coats are better than 1 heavy coat. Practice on an old car until you get the feel for it and are satisfied with the result.
You should have a smooth surface to apply decals. If you’ve used a gloss or satin finish paint, and it’s applied evenly, then you’ve most likely already got the surface you need. If the paint is flat, though, it’s probably a good idea to use a finishing coat before applying the decals.
I use a satin finish coat, rather than gloss. I think it’s a better look. As for the final coat, I also use a satin finish for that on my trolleys, and I would think you might want to do that on your passenger cars as well. The Dul-Cote will give them a much flatter, more weathered look. I save that for freight cars.
Thanks Guys
I used water based Polly Scale
and it was my first attempt at using my new air brush
i was pleased with the results although it came out looking alittle flat
The second photo is a little blurry
sorry
Terry–
I use about two light coats of Glosscote when I do decalling–just enough to give it a smooth, glossy finish. I use it from the can from about two feet away from the model, so that the spray is hitting it lightly and evenly. Then I let the Glosscote ‘cure’ for about 24 hours before decalling. The smooth surface allows the decals to ‘set’ with far fewer–if any–air bubbles. I flood the decals with Microset after they’re fixed on the model, and let that cure and dry for about the same length of time (24 hours) Then when the decals are dry and set with no bubbles, I give the model the same treatment with Dullcote–about two light sprays. Works for me.
Tom [:)]
Thanks Tom
i’ll be using my air brush and i guess i’ll just have to test it as suggested
because i’m also not sure of how much to thin the gloss coat
Terry–
Can’t help you with an airbrush–my airbrush attempts have all been disasterous, so I’m back to using spray cans. If Jeff is the Spray Can Rembrandt, then I’m sort of the Spray Can Matisse, LOL! Hopefully someone on the forum can tell you how much to thin the Glosscote.
Best of luck.
Tom [:)]
Ok i put two coats of gloss on each car and they look kinda shiney
I thinned the gloss coat 1 to 1 with alcohol
and i’m pleased overall with my first attempt with an air brush but disapointed that the shades of pullman green vary so much
look at the comparison of the Walthers RTR Troop car and the observation i painted
[banghead]
How about none?
I’ve been building military models for years and flat paint is a must.
Thus, I’ve been applying decals over flat paint for decades with perfect results.
This Gloss-Cote-and-decals thing seems to be a model railroading urban legend, so to speak.
Save the Gloss Cote for automobile models!
If you don’t weather your military models, you won’t see the need for the gloss cote. If the decals are not sitting flat on the surface any weathering will make the decal look silverish. This happened to me before so now I use the gloss-cote before I decal. I don’t think it’s an urban legeng, but you’re most certainly welcome to “myth bust” it.
Terry–
Don’t kick yourself for the variance in the “Pullman Green” colors–I even remember varying shades of it on the real thing back when I was a kid watching the SP’s “Gold Coast” (or as SP referred to the train: “The Cold Roast”) running through the Sierra. Even Pullman seemed to have varying shades of the color according to whatever paint batch they were using at the time. Made it kind of interesting.[:P]
Tom [:D]
No, It’s not an urban legend. You may be thinking that the recommendation is to leave the gloss finish as the final finish on the model. No so. Unlike most military models, train models are often handled frequently. It is essential, therefore, to seal and protect the decals from untoward wear and tear. The actual recommended procedure is to start with a glossy or satin finish, apply the decals using an initial setting solution (e.g.: diluted Microset), let it dry, then a solvent (e.g.: Solvaset or Microsol), then when that’s dry, another coat of gloss to give an even surface, then a final finish of your choice (usually flat, or, in the case of passenger cars and diesels, satin or gloss).
Applying decals to a flat finish can certainly be done, but there are two issues that can arise: because a flat finish is by definition a rough surface, the decal may not settle down all the way, and the transparent portions of the decal film can appear milky or silvery color when dry. Also, the finish of the decal itself is often shiny, which is somewhat counter to the desire to have a flat finish on the model.
You bet they get weathered!
Flat paint is applied, followed by decals and Solvaset.
Weathering, mostly washes and drybrush and sometimes a little airbrushing, is then applied.
Once all is dry, it is sealed with Dull Cote.
I’ll post some pictures later.
If you’re getting silvery decals then you are using low quality decals.
Just say no to Gloss Cote! [:)]
I take your point on the handling, however Dull Cote will protect against that.
If you have had problems, I think your issue is low quality decals.
I apply Solvaset to my decals and it does as the label claims – it makes them snuggle down.
Here is my main objection to Gloss Cote (apart from it being glossy):
Too many coats of anything is a bad idea for gumming
I use Microscale decals and they are by far not low quality. Maybe it was the method I used for weathering which was powdered stuff. I still think that using a gloss cote of some kind is a good idea. I use Microsol (solvaset in your text) to make the decal conform to the surface. I would imagine I would need copious amounts of that liquid to make a decal conform to all the surface irregularities that come with flat paint. Anyway, to each his own. I’d sure like to see some of your models when you have time, not to scrutinize, but to admire.
I’ve been building armor and a\c for over 30 years. The application of a gloss coat before decalling is a must! it’s not an urban legend, it’s a proven technique.
I used to apply decals over flat paint and used Micro Sol to try to get them to snuggle down, then sprayed a dull coat over them…the result…after a few years or sometimes months, the decals flaked off, why? they had nothing to adhere to on a flat paint surface. The paint has a pebbled surface that even with solvent won’t let the decals snuggle down 100%. The remaining air pockets allow the decal to loosen and eventually come off. In model railroading, with all the handling, this would be reduced to a matter of weeks or days.
Yes, if you blast a model with huge thick coats of gloss it will hide small details,…BUT , the idea is to use a couple thin coats, just enough to make it shiny. The dull coat is the key…I use Testors, slightly thinned with laquer thinner and airbrushed.It yields a nice, even flat finish ready for weathering. MicroScale {which I use almost exclusively} has very detailed instructions on the application of their decals, and a glossy surface is recommended highly. Theres an old addage that says…‘‘if at first you don’t succeed, read the directions’’…all decal manufacturers advise appl
[quote user=“LD357”]
I’ve been building armor and a\c for over 30 years. The application of a gloss coat before decalling is a must! it’s not an urban legend, it’s a proven technique.
I used to apply decals over flat paint and used Micro Sol to try to get them to snuggle down, then sprayed a dull coat over them…the result…after a few years or sometimes months, the decals flaked off, why? they had nothing to adhere to on a flat paint surface. The paint has a pebbled surface that even with solvent won’t let the decals snuggle down 100%. The remaining air pockets allow the decal to loosen and eventually come off. In model railroading, with all the handling, this would be reduced to a matter of weeks or days.
Yes, if you blast a model with huge thick coats of gloss it will hide small details,…BUT , the idea is to use a couple thin coats, just enough to make it shiny. The dull coat is the key…I use Testors, slightly thinned with laquer thinner and airbrushed.It yields a nice, even flat finish ready for weathering. MicroScale {which I use almost exclusively} has very detailed instructions on the application of their decals, and a glossy surface is recommended highly. Theres an old addage that says…‘‘if at first you don’t succeed, read the directions’’…all decal manuf
Painting with an airbrush is far superior to using a rattle can so start with a quality airbrush and learn to paint. As stated too much paint will cover details. Use just enough to do the job. Floquil paint dries flat and I use their Crystal Coat in a light coat over the entire model. The decals follow using a setting solution Decal Set, Solvaset, Micro-Set it’s your choice. Not having a gloss surface makes decals difficult to apply. I then use Testors Dullcote thinned 50% with Scalecoat2 thinner to seal everything in and hide the decal film.
Scalecoate2 is for plastic and dries to a gloss finish ready for decals. After the decals are set and dry then use Testors Dullcote as above to finish up.
This is the Tamiya M3 Lee I built in 1976 when I was 13.
No Gloss Cote! The decals were applied over flat paint and Solvaset was applied. The model was drybrushed afterward (yes, my weathering skills have improved since then!) and sprayed with Dull Cote.
The stripe with stars that surrounds the turret is one decal! Probably the trickiest decal I have ever applied.
Yet it went on perfectly and the Solvaset snuggled the decal down over the screwheads on the mantlet perfectly. You can even see the slots in the screwheads when you use a magnifying glass!
Save your money – you don’t need Gloss Cote! [:)]
Dang … the commander’s mic has fallen out of his hand…
I prefer to use a semi-gloss spray, mixing Glosscote and Dulcote to suit. I usually thin it with about 40% lacquer thinner, then apply it just barely “wet”: it’ll dry to the touch in a few seconds, and when it shows a sheen, that’s enough of a “coat”.
Dallas, nice looking model and obviously, your method works well for you. I am surprised, though, that you don’t apply the Dulcote before weathering, as I would think that it would give you more predictable results with the weathering if the surface were of a uniform texture and finish.
I prefer to clear-coat (gloss, semi-gloss, or flat, as appropriate) after lettering, but before weathering, as my (usually) light weathering lets the finish of the car show through the “dirt”. No clear spray is used after weathering, although, if I were to use chalks or pastels, I suppose it would be necessary.
Wayne