There is a photo in an old railroad book I had as a child that showed either the combined North Coast Limited/Empire Builder or perhaps an early 1971 Amtrak Chicago-Seattle run. I want to say it was taken in St Paul. A series of NP/ex-NP F units were up front in Loewy Green. Then came a series of passenger cars in Big Sky Blue, NP two-tone green, and even Burlington Northern colors. I always thought the font of BSB Great Northern went well with the BN font and all three schemes seemed to look good together. I wish I could find that book or image again.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by Lyon_Wonder
Well I think it was about trying to re-attract customers by changing they’re image.
When did the Big sky scheme come out? 1966? I remember seeing pictures of F45’s and SD45’s painted that way in my uncles photo album. I personally saw Hustle muscle a few times.
SD45 407 was the first locomotive painted, just before May 11, 1967. (May 7th ?)
It was sent from the factory in primer and painted in the Twin Cities.
1969 view-
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn407.jpg
The “Official” date for GN’s color change was April, 1967. Nanaimo is correct
about the GN 407 being the first unit repainted. However, it was already on the
property in Green and Orange. The 412 was the unit sent from the factory in
primer so that shop forces could have a second unit in BSB for the 1967
Directors Special. 407 was a unit from the first (1966) order of SD45s while
412 was in the second (1967).
A lot of it had to do with the timing, I’m sure a lot of people at that time thought that green and orange didn’t go together! Also, GN was trying to develop a paint scheme that would be the “merger” paint scheme – note how they designed the lettering on a separate placard, which could easily be replaced with “Great Northern Pacific & Burlington” lettering, or “Burlington Northern” as they actually went with. Alas, their plan was not fulfilled, it was CB&Q’s last paint scheme that ended up as the BN paint scheme.
Also keep in mind that a lot of railroads changed their paint scheme in this time period. CP went to the multimark, SOO had changed to red and white a few years earlier, RI was always changing their paint scheme, IC went orange and white around this time…
CB&Q had a Cascade green paint scheme?[:0] (Chinese red was cool![8D])
CB&Q had a Cascade green paint scheme?[:0] (Chinese red was cool![8D])
I had an opportunity to see many of the pre-BN merger schemes on a trip to Galesburg, Illinois in 1975. Frankly I liked them all, the early 70’s BN was a circus of colors.
Hard to believe that the BN people allowed a 16 year old from Oklahoma to run an ex-CB&Q SD-9 up and down the yard leads. They told me I was a natural at it. I was just relieved that I didn’t break anything or kill anyone!
I’ve got a Life-Like SD-45 in the CB&Q’s Merger Green Scheme and an Atlas U33C in BSB for my “under construction” early 70’s BN layout.
Mark Gosdin
Yep. Main difference was a wide white stripe separating the top black and the main green, although this was somewhat used on BN-painted passenger equipment.
Here’s one relettered for BN, note the lettering on the cab sub-base:
http://www.trainpix.com/BN/EMDORIG/SD45/6469.HTM
I learned something new today! Well then, riddle me this batman: if this was originally a CBQ paint scheme, why was it called “Cascade Green”, and not something more Burlingtonish, like maybe “Cornfield Green”?[:-,][(-D][;)]
Mark
I envy you! My layout is modern day and all my “heritage” rolling stock is just that. But I have always been tempted to do an early 70s layout with the BN merger being recent and a rainbow of locomotives and passenger stock.
I have those same P2K SD45s and I love them. The Burlington Cascade Green scheme was so radical from what came before but it certainly influenced the final BN scheme, though that “hockey stick” only was adopted for the passenger fleet.
I am surprised that out of all the railroad books out there, that someone has not done a “Trackside” or other color pictorial of the early days of Burlington Northern to capture this unique period.
Well, GN, NP, and Burlington were all under common ownership for years and years, the merger was mostly just a formality. Or, quite possibly, the “cascade” part of the name was adopted after the merger…
A year or so before the merger Northern Pacific also applied BN green to some of their rolling stock.
That does look kinda lame, I think they could have done a more impressive job.
Maybe its’ that I"m just not a big fan of green heh. I like the chinese Red (Although I never saw it myself personally) and I like the bright red speed lettering on Rock Island. Although all the different paint schemes is part of what made Rock Island attractive.
Murphy, FYI, all of CB&Q’s SD45s were painted in the green “hockey stick” scheme.
The Q never had SD45s in Chinese red, though the subsidiary C&S did have SD40s
in it. Q also repainted several GP40s into that scheme and the U23Cs were
also delivered in green.
Does that mean BNSF is going to turn Blue!!!
[(-D][(-D][(-D] [(-D][(-D][(-D]
[:P][:P]
They don’t go together. Recall color 101 from art and ergonomics class. Two minor colors separated on the color wheel by the primary color of yellow. The only thing that saved it from being a complete eyesore was the green was far enough into the black grey area that the actual “green” is subdued. I guess another minor factor was that the gold strip was “yellow” enough to help the eyes make the transistion.
Wasn’t “Great Burlington Pacific” another candidate for a name, but the BGP initials didn’t work well?
It is interesting that in the history (after Hill left the presidency) and since 1910, that even though the Q was the “owned” line, it still ended up being primary decision making road.
All the railroads were trying to shed the dying railroad “old choo choo” image and take on a new modern and progressive corporate look.
I think that was because it was the only one of the 4 hill lines that had “Chicago” in it’s name.[;)]
The combined company was to be called “Great Northern Pacific & Burlington Lines” in all the pre-merger paperwork ( I found a treasure trove of 60’s & 70’s era railroad information in the college library when I worked there in the late 70’s. ) a non-starter of a name if there ever was one.
Burlington Northern and the B+N logo were coined by Lippincott & Margulies, a Madison Avenue ad agency. ( The same agency came up with Amtrak and the pointless arrow logo. ) I would not be suprised to discover that the BSB scheme was originally designed by them as well.
GN, NP and CB&Q all had various merger paint experiments with cascade green. GN on Freight & Passenger Cars, NP on Freight Cars & Cabooses and CB&Q on Locomotives, Freight Cars & Cabooses. There are a number of good pictures in the “Burlington Northern Annual” series of books from the early 70’s thru about 1980. Hard to find even on eBay, but worth the effort if you are interested in that time period.
One side note: CB&Q was buying up SL-SF stock in the early 60’s with an eye to gaining control of the Frisco. They sold it all when the GN + NP + CB&Q merger started making headway.
Mark Gosdin