Gold Coast Limited, questions.

Classic Trains General Discussion
1

Hi, new guy here.

I found this forum while searching for more information about the Gold Coast Limited, a Union Pacific offering that began in the mid-1920’s. (But you probably knew that.)

I’m writing a book about a friend’s grandparents and in it I have a chapter about their family traveling from Chicago to Sacramento by train in 1927. The father had been blacklisted following the big steel strike in 1919 and things weren’t working out for him in the midwest, so he accepted an offer to work for SoCal Edison on a project related to the Saint Francis Dam.

My questions are more about the passenger experience than the equipment, but to understand the former I need to understand the latter.

I found a 1926 document that lists the train schedules and Pullman rates for the Gold Coast Limited. It says the train is all-Pullman, and that accommodations for seat passenegers was restricted. It goes on to say that for the San Francisco trip the standard sleeping cars cosist of 10 sections, drawing rooms, and compartments. Am I correct in that this describes each Pullman car, that each contains 10 open-sections, a drawing room and one or more compartments?

I am also interested in knowing what the fare would have been. I see in the guide that I have that there were rates for a double lower standard berth ($19.13), a drawing room ($67.50), a compartment ($54.00), and a double lower tourist bearth ($10.13). In a separate note it says standard upper berths were 20% less than the lower berth, $2.40 minimum, and tourist upper berths cost 20% less than a lower berth, $1.00 minimum.

Am I to understand that passengers traveling in open sections bought tickets based on the berth and not the seat? Also, does this upper and lower berth business refer to the seats that convert into a bed (lower) and the upper berth is the overehead shelf that the porter lowers at night?

One more complication is children 12 years old and under travel at half fare. In my story three p

2

You’re right, the Pullman charges you’re quoting are just the Pullman charges. The one-way RR fare Chicago to SF was $79.84 for an adult in the 1920s; it decreased in the 1930s.

Lots of Pullmans had ten sections, two compartments and one drawing room. Tourist Pullmans were usually 16 sections, weren’t they? Were the berths the same size as the standard Pullman? How long and how wide was a standard berth?

Pretty sure when you paid for a berth, you could put as many people in it as you wanted – no extra added to the berth charge.

Meals included in the fare … that certainly wasn’t the usual. Dunno if some RR tried it at some point.

Don’t see any Tourist Pullmans on the Gold Coast in the January 1927 timetable – did they even exist then?

UP27-1TT.pdf (streamlinermemories.info)

3

The Gold Coast was a premium train, and even had some periods when it was extra fare. Most passengers would travel on a mixed coach and Pullman train on a slower schedule. The Pacific Limited was a good example but there were others. Tickets would have been issued as follows for a Chicago-Sacramento trip:

Chicago - C&NW - Omaha

Omaha - Union Pacific - Ogden

Ogden - Southern Pacific - Sacramento

Those were the rail fare coupons, one per person per segment. Those would have been issued at the First Class rate good in sleeping cars. There would also be Pullman tickets for each accomodation. Those were issued by “line”, so if the car ran through, there was only a single Pullman ticket for the entire route. Rail fare tickets would be “lifted” by the railroad Conductor, Pullman tickets by the Pullman Conductor, often at a check-in booth if at the originating station (in this case Chicago’s C&NW Station, the then-new Chicago Passenger Terminal). For a number of years the Pacific Limited operated between Chicago and Omaha over the Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Pacific (still known as the “St. Paul” in the 1920s.) CMStP&P trains left the north side of Chicago’s then new Union Station, three blocks down Canal Street from the CPT. Even in years the Pacific Limited was mainly a St. Paul train, C&NW carried connecting cars on its own trains.

The Pacific Limited carried both Standard and Tourist sleepers. Tourist sleepers had beds of the same size but were often run in pairs serviced by a single porter. The beddig was usually of lesser quality.

Food was always pay as you go. In some intermediate stations it was possible to get box lunches at station restaurants. Depending on the schedule Omaha, Cheyenne, Green River WY and Ogden could have daytime service stops long enough to visit the station restaurant. At other stops vendors sold various ite

4

Turns out the adult one-way fare Chicago to Sacramento was $78.56 in 1927. Don’t know the Pullman charges to Sacramento, but to San Francisco was $23.63 for a lower berth, $66.75 for a compartment.

As you see in the timetable, no extra fare on the Gold Coast – doubt it ever had one.

Guess the inside of a rail car was around 114 inches wide, so the berths probably weren’t much more than 36 inches wide?

5

Thanks all for your replies, and my apologice for not getting back here sooner.

In my story the family is traveling west in late summer of 1927. I believe the Gold Coast had been running since earlier that year.

My understandidng was the Gold Coast was the more economical of the three trans-continental trains UP started offering as of Nov 24, 1926. Was it still considered a luxury ride? Was the alternative to taking on of these three trans-continentals booking a train from station to station?

I saw the UP27-1TT.pdf (streamlinermemories.info) document. Very help, and a bit confusing.

The RR fares, where did people find that info? Also, was there a different fare for children? In my story a mother is traveling with five children, three of them 12 and under.

I’ll check my sources again on the food question. They may have been referring to later years or to passengers booking luxury accommodations.

I see from the schedule that Omaha and maybe Ogdin would be the only stops that allowed a person enough time to get off the train and purchase more food.

Other than the dining cars, would there be other ways to get meals on the train, something less formal? A snack/food/convenience store, for example?

I’m really trying to capture what it was like to travel by train during this era. All the train site and source I’ve consulted focus on the equipment and routes, but not the traveler’s experience.

Thank you for your help, and I hope you all had a nice holiday.

Mike

6

Thanks. That helps a lot. If I am to use this method of travel I’ll need to know the schedules and fares. Do you have a source for these?

7

The Overland was faster; probably that’s why it charged extra. Aside from that, the Gold Coast wasn’t any cheaper, far as we know. The only way to get a cheaper bed was to get a Tourist berth, which the Gold Coast didn’t have.

We have no idea whether it was considered luxurious. If you look at the train’s equipment, on page 23 of the timetable, you know as much as anyone. Barber? Maid? Valet? Bath? What’s all that mean?

One big change in the passenger experience was air conditioning, which became common in the 1930s. Even the top 1927 trains didn’t have it.

You may be right about 11-year-olds paying half fare – I don’t remember any mentions of that. Many/most 1920s timetables didn’t show even the adult fares.

8

Railroad fares - you got them from the ticket agent. The Pullman charges noted are only the price of accomodations. Note that there are some rooms that require a minimum number of railroad fares.

Half fare for children under 12 was near universal until very recently.

Since the Gold Coast was all-Pullman folks would be expected to eat in the diner.

The Barber, Hairdresser, Maid, Valet and bath were all services provided in the Club-Observation car for a price.

The Pacific Limited (via the Chicago Milwaukee and St. Paul) also carried tourist sleepers and coaches. Used Union Station in Chicago.

9

Thanks, all.

THe reason I am digging deeper into the details of this is I want to link this story to the history of the 1920-30s, and if train people read this chapter they wouldn’t find any major faults.

For now I am going to stick with the idea that the family traveled on the Gold Coast. I have the rates and the schedule, so I can weave a story using that info.

Was it possible or even allowed for passengers to bring their own food or buy food at the longer stops? I’m trying to picture a mother of five feeding her kids on this 4-day trip, and I can’t exactly see them eating in basically a resturant three times a day. Plus I’d expect mom to have brought food for snacks.

Mike

10

There was no restriction on passenbers bringing fod and drink onboard trains. But no making a mess or cooking. And no bringing one’s own food into the dining car, with some railroads also resrtricting it into the lounge car.

11

Some railroads also provided limited food via “news butchers” who sold sandwiches in addition to newspapers. These were more likely to be found in the east, with shorter distances between stations and more frequent schedules, allowing the new butchers to return home.

12

Thanks all for the great feedback.

Last weekend new information came in on the family’s move from Chicago to Bakersfield. I had them making the move in the summer of 1927, for reasons related to Walter’s new job. At that time the Gold Coast Limited was running and in California the San Joachine Flyer, too, so I put the family on those trains. Turns out, they made the move sometime before June 1924, probably late summer 1923, to coincide with the start of school. I have newspaper clippings confirming June 1924. That’s when the oldest daughter graduated from grammar school. I also have a phone book from that year stating their address.

The chapter will need reworking, and I have to find a train schedule, or schedules, to set the place and time. I could make that all up, but I loved being able to use the actual times when their train stopped or passed through various towns. I want this story to stick as close to documented history as possible.

Mike

13

Schedule book for July 1923 is online

The Official guide of the railways and steam navigation … July 1923. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library

14

Chicag to Bakersfield could also have been done on AT&SF’s California Limited, among other trains. If the route via Sacramento was used, the train to used to Bakersfield would likely have been one of SP’s trains. There were three connecting trains out of Sacramento connecting to the San Joaquin Valley trains in either Stockton or Tracy.

Scan of a 1923 SP timetable - Valley trains in tables 11 and 12

https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/1more7/1923-06-10SP_systemPTT.pdf from

https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/and_timetables1.html

15

The new time period of travel for the story to summer 1923 changes things in terms of travel offerings, because at this time the Gold Coast Limited did not exist. Instead, a possible direct internary for a Chicago-Bakersfield trip via the Overland Route would be:

Chicago-Oakland train
Milwaukee Road #19 - Pacific Limited Lv. Chicago 10:45 am (first day)
Southern Pacific #19 - Pacific Limited Ar. Sacramento 4:50 am (third day)

Sacramento-Oakland train
Southern Pacific #31 - Lv. Sacrmamento 8:50 am
Southern Pacific #31 - Ar. Tracy 11:45 am

Oakland-Los Angeles train
Southern Pacific #8 - Los Angeles Passenger - Lv. Tracy 1:55 pm
Southern Pacific #8 - Los Angeles Passenger - Ar. Bakersfield 11:40 pm

This itenerary would be challenging for a mother and five children, involving changing trains twice. It also would have been possible, instead, to remain on the Pacific Limited to Oakland, arriving 7:51 am, and pick up the Los Angeles Passenger there instead, leaving Oakland at 11:14 am.

The suggestion made by rcdrye of using the Santa Fe would make more sense, since it was possible to travel directly to Bakersfield from Chicago on this railroad, utilizing through Chicago-Oakland Pullman or Tourist sleepers. Santa Fe’s west coast service primarily operated to Los Angeles, but in several instances, Oakland bound cars would be switched off at Barstow, to be handled in Barstow-Oakland connecting trains, running through Bakersfield.

Using the Santa Fe, the best option would be using Train #21, The Missionary, leaving Chicago at 9:55 pm, arriving Bakersfield at 8:25 pm the third day, via #21, the Barstow-Oakland connection to The Missionary. This train had through Chicago-Oakland Pullmans and Tourist sleepers.

Another option via

16

Awesome, guys.

I’ll download and dig in and will let you know what I end up using.

I hadn’t thought about the summer travel thing. That will be a nice detail to add to the story.

Mike

17

If I am reading /1923-06-10SP_systemPTT correctly, train 8 leaves San Francisco/Oakland a little before 11 AM and arrives in Bakersfield at 11 PM. Train 50 leaves at 4 PM and arrives in Bakersfield at 3 AM.

I’m not used to reading these.

Mid-summer, that is going to be a hot train! This Chicago family is in for a treat.

In the big guide I see the San Francisco Overland, Pacific Limited, Continental Limited, and the California Mail on page 768.

Mike

18

I’m not a train guy so I didn’t know what AT&SF meant, but Wikipedia sorted that out for me.

I found “The Scout” and “The Missionary” on pages 870 and 871 of the “Offical Guide”. It looks like either of those will do.

19

Maybe…

Once you decided on a timeframe of travel for your story, you may want to look into newspaper archives of that time period and check out the weather forecasts that were published. Start with your local library and see if they have online access to the New York Times or Chicago Tribune. Another free resource would be www.chroniclingamerica.org, operated by the Library of Congress. They have millions of pages of newspapers from publications from around the country. Looking through these could also give you a sense of the time, what was newsworthy, what people were talking about, sports and entertainment listings, etc.

20

I don’t think The Scout would suit your story needs, because at the time, this train did not carry any through sleepers to Oakland, and taking this train would involve a 2+ layover in the early morning hours in Barstow.

Concerning the Santa Fe: Of all the Chicago-California services that were offered, only Santa Fe operated its own line all the way from Chicago to California - it could be argued that it was the main player in Chicago-Southern California passenger traffic. The iconic Route 66 would loosely follow the Santa Fe line, except in the center third of the route. Going westbound, at Newton, Kansas, the main line would split: one line, called the Northern Division, would continue west, going through a corner of Colorado, via LaJunta, and then veer south to Albquerque, turning west. The other line, called the Southern Division (or Panhandle Divison), would veer southwest, eventually going through Armarillo, Texas and Clovis, New Mexico. Both lines would eventually merge around Belen, New Mexico, just west of Albquerque. The majority of Santa Fe’s through passenger trains operated via the Northern Division. In fact, at this time The Missionary was the only through Santa Fe California train that operated via the Panhandle Division. Timings for both routes were about the same, so I have a suspicision that your story subjects would be steered by the Santa Fe ticket agent to take The Missionary, because it offered a “one-seat” service from Chicago to Bakersfield. The alternate option of #9, The Navajo, (shown on page 869 of the Official