I’m kind of confused, don’t know what to make of the stopping of rail services in the NY Metropolitan area (subways, MNRR, LIRR, and NJT) in advance of Hurricane Irene. As things look now she might be catagorey two, possibly even one, by the time it reaches the area sometime after dark Saturday night into Sunday morning. Worse storms have hit the area over the years, and yes, service was disrupted. But disrupted not closed down entirely in advance. Are the powers that be being cautious or over the top cautious? Are they keeping from the public the one thing that just might be of importance or service? As I said, I am sort of confused and really don’t know whether these steps are necessary or right or right on. Thoughts?:
henry6:
My thought is that it may be one of those "Darned if you do or Darned if you don’t situations, for Mayor Bloomberg’s administration.
If they did nothing and somebody was killed, the News would castigate his administration. So they inconvenience the whole population in one way or another , and they get all kinds of publicity, and then they get beat up for being too proactive. But they can come back with the statement that they were doing all they could to protect the citizens in an ‘emergency’.
One of the news broadcasts mentioned that they were going to have authorities ‘sweep’ all the souls who live in the Subway tunnels, out of them before they close them off. (400 plus stations, and miles of tunnels)
I have no idea of the numbers of folks living down in the Subway these days, but from times I was delivering to the Warehouse at Richmond Hill, Iremember some of those men talking about chasing vagrants out, and finding the occasional body in their LIRR tunnels.
Be Safe! henry6
I couldn’t sleep, so I watched a tape delay version of our 11:00 news, and one sentence by NY Mayor Bloomberg caught my attention. Although I can’t remember the exact quote, what he said made me think that NY might have the highest percentage of people in North America whose only transportation option is to use public transit. I think in most places authorities expect people to evacuate in their own cars. But in order to get enough people out of NY, people have to start taking public transportation early to ensure they have a ride out of the city. I think his announced shut down times for public transportation is just a way to get people moving out of the city.
Henry, I hope you stay safe and dry.
Bruce
The media - all forms - have become the best fear mongers in the world.
I seems that now a days, any thing that happens is the worst of all time…storms, floods, heat, cold … you name it and the media will run with it an sell fear! An nothing sells quite so well as fear!
I live on Long Island and remember Gloria in '85. Perhaps I’ll remember Irene as well.
NY Times article
Mike
I lived in the North Jersey until 1961 but have had family ties there ever since. So I experienced several bad snow storms and hurricanes, and droughts, too. But I think there has been an over reaction by politicos to what may actually turn out to be nothing more than a heavey rain storm…Irene hit land this morning at Cape Hatteras, NC as a category one and not catagory three as suspected which means it could be only a tropical storm by the time she hits Jersey and the City. Thus the plans of not running trains, not providing public services, becomes more damaging. It is ok to have plans made, to have plans in place, have plans ready to be implimentd. But to impliment plans of shutdown 24 to 48 hours in advance effectively closing down all commerce and industry is rediculous; we have become paranoid and panic at the slightest thought of a threat. We are ruled by fear by a leadership that rules by fear. Yes, hurricanes and two foot snow storms are dangerous and cause great inconveneices to say the very least. But we have to be practical, too. lest we desolve ourselves in our own paranoia.
The media particularly loves to sell bad weather. And they cheer on hurricanes like they were a rising star in a talent contest. Reporters stand in front of the camera and act like they are being bounced in the wind. In the case of this Irene, the media and political reaction may end up being a bigger story than the storm.
Let’s see now, in the Midwest, a thunderstorm with up to 60 MPH gusts will usually last no more than an hour over a particular location and can cause localized flooding and a fair amount of other damage. This hurricane will have minimum sustained winds of 90+ MPH and in this case, will have tropical storm winds (40+ MPH) up to 100 miles from the center of the storm, with very heavy rains. This hurricane will take 10-15 hours to pass a location, with heavy wind and rain throughout the entire period. Also consider that the ground in the Northeast has little capacity for absorbing excess rainfall due to the heavy rains during this past summer. I would hardly think that the authorities are overreacting.
The fact that Amtrak, LIRR, NJT, and others run numerous trains in and out of Penn station without an incident does not sell papers. Just let one train derail and upset the apple cart of schedules and the news media will jump all over it. That sells papers.
With the exception of Central Park, I’d think it would be safe to say that that the ground in Manhattan has ZERO capacity for storing rainwater. With the combination of possible storm surge and sustained heavy rainfall, I would be very concerned about the subway tunnels flooding. In addition, there is a significant chance for loss of power which would compound the problem of subway flooding.
- Erik
Flooding of subway tunnels and other tunnels and stations, of tracks, underpasses, etc… I understand. But is the shutdown of ALL public transportation 24 hours in advance of the storm being done out of fear or experience. Or grandstanding? There have been storms, hurricanes, before, and worse than this one is now predicted to be, and they also know that such storms can turn 90 to 180 degrees (yes, exaggertion!) on a dime with no notice. So why so drastic measures so far in advance? Since 9-11-01 and since ignoring other storm warnings entirely in the past, they seem ot be antsy at the thought and overact or react without full understanding of all possiblities and all possible (sane) reactions and actions that can be taken. This is just way over the top at this moment. And, yes, this is just my opinion right now.
While it is not spelled out, I would assume that NJT, the New York Subway and the other rail passenger lines in the New York area are doing the best they can to get equipment to locations where the impact of any flooding will be minimal. That probably takes time. Bad enough if empty subways and tunnels are flooded, why risk the destruction of billions of dollars of rolling stock.
NYC is already starting to get hit with rain from the outer bands of the storm. If the predictions are wrong, so what? A lot of people are inconvenienced. If right, the loss avoided could easily be in the billions, and who knows how many lives saved.
We have vacationed on the North Carolina Outer Banks north of Kitty Hawk. Building code requires that houses there be built on pilings with any walls enclosing ground level space designed to blow out with any storm surge. The house we stay at has many features designed to withstand the effects of a hurricane. Still no guarantees.
Henry: Amtrak and rail commuter agencys are really held in by the HOS law. It certainly makes planning to move equipment out of harm’s way more difficult. There has been no mention that the FRA has waived its requirements. [ But they could ]. Uniion contracts may also come into play for transit personel.
Speaking of Irene,
“As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly”
Mike