My Lifelike GP7 has a squeal that has a higher pitch at a faster speed.
Following recent posts on this matter I did oil the motor shafts but the
squeal continues. I was uncertain how much oil is needed; I tend to use
little amounts of oil - perhaps not enough. Another question, could this squeal
be coming from the axles - if so, should they be greased and how much grease
should be applied?
Thanks for your help.
You could oil the axle shafts/bushing interface. I would suspect if that’s not it to look at the weight and wires vs motor/fly wheel interference–this is very easy to happen after you oil the motor since you have to remove the weight to oil the motor. It could be too a bearing issue too, beyond oil fixable.
Richard
While the oil eliminated my squeal for a while it has returned, albeit not as loud as it was. My thoughts on a permanent fix is the replacement with Athearn worm gears and worm shaft bearings.
As I noted on another thread, some of the early P2K Geeps have poor quality bearings on the worm shafts, and no amount of lubrication will stop the squeal. You will probably have to replace the bearings with Athearn parts, but be aware there are different sizes http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/214230.aspx.
It can take several times to oil a motor shaft on P2k. You don’t have to worry about the motor end, except for the end where brushes are. What oil are you using. You might try a thicker oil that will stay put.
The best oil i have found is Duralube. I know it is for car engines but for 25 years i have had very good results on model engines, antique clocks, and fish tank pumps. Use it on just about everything and it stays put.
Bob
Only a guess; but, this makes sense to me; the diameter of the holes in the bearings on the worn shaft are to big; or, have corroded over time. They are dissimilar metals, the shafts being steel and the bearings being some type of bronze. Which ever it is, is allowing a vibration to start-up, between the bearing and shaft(s). It could be occurring in both the front and rear worm shafts; or, maybe just the front; or, the rear. Someone also mentioned that the thrust washers could be causing a problem. However, I have no understanding of how this could be the problem.
Does any one have the right part numbers for the replacement Athearn parts? I would need to order 4 of them as I have two of these locomotives.
That would be my thought as well. I had this same problem with a couple of locos. After a lot of searching and testing I finally changed out the worm bearings and washers and the problem was fixed. Those bearings aren’t the best quality plus dissimilar metals generally don’t like each other. I used Athearn bearings as replacements.
The bearing or bushing of brass or bronze is to take the wear. The harder shaft should be OK, no wear.
This method has been used since the 1800’s when ball bearing are not used. Cheaper to replace the bushing than the shaft.
If you look at the motor, it uses the same bearing/bushing.
Bob
Are only the bearings available? Is the fit between the shaft and bearing the same for P2K and Athearn?
It sound to me like the squeal only occures when the loco has sat for a year or three. Is this a correct assumption?
Not sure what parts are interchangable…In 30 years I never had to change any bearings or bushings in my HO scale engines.
The oil you use does make a differance. Some oils are known to evaporate or dry up over time. Never had a problem using the Duralube on metal or plastic I have engines in HO and some antique clocks i oiled 15-20 years ago and they are still working fine.
Bob
My guess is the lubricant P2K used at the time of manufacture has dried up. This squeal seems to be common in P2K locomotives. You don’t have any Proto 2000 Locos, Bob?
The P2K worm shaft and axle bearings are interchangeable with Athearn axle bearings. Athearn apparently changed something on its newer mechanisms with the plastic worms, as the shaft bearings from those no longer fit on the P2K shafts. At least this is what I noted when repairing P2K Geeps and scrounging Athearn mechanisms for parts.
The only ones I’ve seen affected by this issue are certain P2K Geeps. If you don’t have one of these, you probably haven’t experienced the problem.
Again this assumes the parts involved are of acceptable quality in the first place. Some production runs of Proto 2000 diesels are prone to squealing caused by the bearings. Since virtually no other models with this same mechanism design exhibit the same trouble, it suggests the bearings themselves are the culprits. The ones I’ve had that squealed (or fixed for others) could not be cured with cleaning, or any amount or type of lubrication, but the noise disappeared completely when the bearings were replaced with Athearn parts. The basic mechanism design is fine.
I have about 400 locomotives in HO scale, both steam and diesel. About 30 P2K or Proto with and without sound. At one time i also had about 250 N scale engines also.
The only ones i had to lube more than once was a set of Proto 1000 FM’s.
When i get a new or used one, after testing, first thing i do is make sure everything is lubed and clean. I don’t trust the factory to lube during asembly.
Bob
An in-service inspection is always a good idea.
For my part, I’ve often found that overlubrication is the issue. And there’s always failed/hardened lubrication if that model has been sitting on a shelf for a few years before it became yours.
Howdy
My oldest Atlas loco did this to me. I knew nothing about what to do except to oil it. Didn’t work. That’s when I got up the nerve to pull off the wheel/axle sets. I guess thats what there called.
When I took them apart I realized I needed to clean my track a little more often. They were loaded with fuzz and junk and even some thin plastic strings I finally figured out were from the hot glue gun that I can only see in the right light.
Cleaned it, lubed it and it has run great ever since. That was 3 layouts ago and I’m much more attentive now about cleaning before running. Live and learn.
Ron
Butler hawk, Did you solve your problem?
As I posted in your first post, a PK 1000 F3 A of mine had the same problem. Today I finally got around to fixing it. In my cases it was not a bad bearing but the wheel axle bearings and worm gear bearings needed a better lube job.
I used a drop of Hob-E-Lube Gear Lube HL664 (pretty sure any oil would have worked) on both sides of the axle bearing’s and a drop on each worm gear bearing.
Pulling freight today for the first time in 6 months! [:D]
Lets us know how your is doing pleases!
Cuda Ken