Hello again gang and long time no see. How are you all - Well I hope.
Well here we go yet again this is probably the fouth, and yes I promise last time, you all will have to sit through the track plan post from the Ol’ Coyote. As some know by now, I’ve been fooling around with a layout plan for close to a year now and I’m at what I think is a near finished place.
Before I go on I’d like to thank all those who have contributed so much in previous posts; I could never have made it this far without you all, you are a great bunch of guys and gals. However I owe a special thanks to Texas Zephyr and SpaceMouse without the gentle and patient guidance of you two gentlemen this would have all been for naught.
So here it is; I am looking for any and all feedback from as many folks as I can find. I find that the feedback of others helps me more than anything else and I sincerely welcome any all comments, criticisms or suggestions. I do my best to respond to anyone that takes the time and has the fortitude to look over this madness.
Here is the Layout’s basic information –
[size=14pt]The Route-[/size]
Mileposts
The route lies between mileposts 214.8 and 230.0, roughly between Coronado Junction and Adamana
Elevation
As the following image shows the grade westward between Pinta and Adamana is steadily down leveling off eventually at the Winslow Yard.
Gila
Due to current space limitations I am using a fictional town - Gila Arizona (not to be confused with Gila Bend, Gila Crossing or Gila County Arizona,) as a showcase for the various elements that I desire on the layout such as a typical 1950’s Drive In Theater, Cattle pens serviced by the line, etc.
My first thought is about that liftout. Is there any way to also have the option of a duck-under? It can get mighty frustrating to bring everything to a screeching halt whenever you want to get a beer, sandwich, etc during an operating session. Yeh, duck-unders are a pain but liftouts are time consuming to make certain everything is put properly back into place to prevent derailments, etc. It can real old real fast.
Buildings F & I might have to be reduced in size to accommodate locos with larger overhangs as they go around the curves.
It’s going to be quite a reach to building L and the area beyond building A when working on the layout. Remember, you’ll probably need both hands to work on stuff so calculate your reach distance accordingly.
Is the control panel near building G?? Our operating sessions with the controls inside a smaller room usually resulted in neck and back aches from all the twisting and turning. With too much beer, dizziness can be a factor too…haha.
On my last layout, I had the option of placing the controls outside “the loop” (like over near your building F toward the closet) with a long wire teather for operating sessions with a dedicated-trainmaster to throw switches from afar while the rest of us ran trains inside “the loop”.
It made for less confusion and smoother sessions. The control panel was made removable with slotted brackets for easy insertion inside or outside “the loop”. It remained inside with two or less operators.
Just a thought but what about reversing the direction of the crossover on the lift-out so trains can have the option of entering the closet yard closer than near building I…
It looks like you’re going to have a lot of fun…good luck and thanks for sharing your nice plan with us.
I can see what Mac was saying about that crossover on the lift out.
Speaking of the lift-out, make sure to deaden the power to the track on both sides when the the lift-out is up. You don’t want to accidentally run a loco off the end.
Mac’s comments are quite well thought out too. Reversing the cross over would give a bit more flezability, though the way it is forces you to do a second lap if you’re on the inside, thereby lengthening your run, so that’s not a bad thing either.
My thought was more about the turnout next to the liftout. I know it’s not butted right up to it, but it’s close. Having an angled track crossing that liftout joint my prove to be difficult when it comes to getting the track to line up perfectly so that the train doesn’t derail just as it’s going into or coming out of the turnout. Either moving the turnout onto the liftout (I’d do this option myself) or moving it back a few inches (might make the curve too tight) would allow only straight track joints across the liftout edges and would make lining the tracks up much easier. Just a thought…
(It’s hard to find faults in what is obviously a great plan!)
Unlike the others, I don’t see much of a problem with having the lift-out and much perfer it to any duck-under, especially if you are no “kid”. I’ve seen more layouts hampered than helped by duck-unders.
I am a little troubled by having that turnout located at the edge of the lift-out, however, as precise diagnol alignment there could be a problem once any wear begins on this section. One is much better off having track that runs straight across such features.
This apparently being your first layout, are you fully aware of the electrical difficulties/reversing necessity, created by having the wye at the base of your penninsula and at the entrance to your staging yard?
Outside of these items, I think your design seems reasonable.
Hey, Grandpa C., it has been a while! I really like what I see here…a lot!
I have no comments to add, although you could have an X-crossover ( bi-directional) on your lift/drop/swing/duck whatever it will be and get to eat your cake, too.
Looks good to me, as is. There are always going to be picky minor things, if one attempts to fix everything 100%, the design will never be done, because there is no such thing as a perfect layout.
I have a modular unit that has a turnout right on the edge, and it has never been any problem.
Anyway, I thought you had started building this about a month ago.
Yes Sir a do, but every project takes a year and a half minimum! [(-D]
I can see what you mean, but I can’t do a duck under, the layout is for both myself and my OL and her RA precludes her shimming under anything - I’ve been studying up a bit on drop downs and hopefully we’ll get one in good.
nods I agree, most of the buildings, except a dozen or so are “placeholder” dimensions rather than exact measurements for total size. However I did make sure that every buidling or structure is a min scale 10’ from track centers or min 8’ 6" from track centers for loading docks and passenger platforms. You’re correct though, those two in particular will have to be done carefully when I set down to build them.
nods Again, I am right there with you; my general reach is around 30" but even with that I have a
Thank you sir… I have made both suggested changes, and I will be posting them at the end of my replies for you all to take a look at; they were both finely made points.
I have made the suggested change to the turnout located at the edge of the lift/drop out section. You were spot on about it; thank you for the good advice.
I have only the most remote understanding of the electrical difficulties/reversing that will be needed to make the Wye’s work properly. Is their any information you could send my way or words of wisdom you might offer a greenhorn on the matter?
Thanks again for taking the time to share your feedback with me, it all helps me greatly.
How are you bud? Hope you’re doing well. Yes, I’m pretty much done on this, just a few lil bits here and there.
And yes I have started, the flooring is in, the painting starts next week and the benchwork should be here end of next week to middle of week after that, so we are blowing and going. I’ll try and get some pics up soon to show off a bit. [;)]
Thanks as always my friend for taking the time to post back to this crazy old dog. [:)]
Based on the suggestions and good advice I got from many here today - I have turned the crossover on the lift/pull out section and moved the passing siding turnout up onto the same section so that I now only have three pieces of straight track at either edge of the lift/pull out section.
Changes are shown below:
(lift out/drop down/pull out section is highlighted in yellow)
While it would certainly be possible to explain here how to go about wiring for the necessary polarity reversal called for in operating reversing wyes, such as the two you plan for your layout, a proper and detail explanation on how to approach the situation is more than I think reasonable for a single post. Since this is your first layout, it would be very much in your best interest to pick up one of the Kalmbach books on basic layout wiring and properly prepare yourself for any electrical questions/problems that might arise during construction and wiring (there’s going to be a lot of wiring needed for that planned layout of yours if you want it to perform well). I’m not trying to avoid providing an answer but rather offering the best advice I can for someone new to layout building.
Grandpa Coyote,
I just back ordered the Decemeber 1999 issue of MRR magazine. There is an article on a magnetic liftout.
Andy Sperando from MRR sent me the info about it, and told me to order that issue, said there is a complete article on it, how to build it, etc. Andy says it’s a real slick setup and works great.
While the first track arrangement on the liftout wasn’t absolutely impossible to work with, I think the new one is a big improvement from a maintinance standpoint.
Frankly, I can’t find anything else wrong with it.
Very nice job on the planning!
Now, …I am squarely placing the burden of responsibility on your shoulders to see to it that we get pictures as the building progresses. Failure to comply will result in severe punishment, or at least constant pestering from us! [;)]
EDIT: Here’s the NMRA’s instructions on wiring a wye…
I know I’m not as knowledgeable as some of the seasoned modelers, but let me give it a crack.
The simplest way to wire your wye in DCC is a toggle switch. You isolate one of the legs of your wye–not the main-- by insulating the track at the turnouts. Use a toggle switch that powers the track with one polarity in one direction when flipped one way, and has the polarity the other direction when flipped the other way. If you align the switch with the direction of travel of your train it will simplify matters. When your train completely enters the wye, flip the switch and you are done. The DCC engine doesn’t really care which direction the current is going, but if one set of wheels picks up current in one direction and the other set picks up current in the other, your block shuts down. The toggle switch aligns power of the leg track with the rest of the layout.
All the DCC companies have a automated system to do the same thing. Digitrax, for example, uses the PM42.
Well, actually I want more than pics. [:)] I really want to bring my El Capitan, Grande Canyon, and California strawberry hot freight down to run with your Super Chief sometime! Wouldn’t mind coming down to help construct either. My daughter just left from staging at Fort Hood (Austin) for Iraq a couple weeks ago, so to see her off we drove right by your place.
P.S. I for one do not like the new crossover placement. As it was originally, it paired with the crossoer in the lower center, allowed using the outside track as a “passing” siding for the inside track at the “lower” city. The new way it pairs with the crossover in the center of the upper city… As the inside loop has its own passing siding (further to the inside) this is probably not a big deal, but in my mind it duplicates the crossover in the lower center. But that one could be flipped too. So I guess the big question is it supposed to match the other crossover at the top or the one at the bottom?
TZ, maybe I’m missing something, but isn’t it really very similar to the way it was?? The passing siding is a couple of inches shorter, true, but added reliability is the gain from it. The passing siding is still very usable. Or did I miss something?
