At this moment there were 45 guests and only five members at this forum. I have the impression there are many more viewers than participants viewing the forum almost all the time. That got me to wondering. What proportion of these people are modelers versus the curious? Why don’t more of them participate? Why did I just have the thought that we participants are zoo animals under observation? Are there lots of foreign viewers who believe their English writing skills are inadequate?
Mark
They may be afraid of being bit by a troll, or maybe they haven’t been well and truly bitten mrr bug,
I know what you’re talking about as I’ve noticed this too.
Here’s my idea on why many prefer to lurk and watch rather than participate.
I read a couple posts recently that upset me. One fellow asked a question about a locomotive problem and was blasted by the 2nd or 3rd poster for not telling us what manufacturer he was asking about. Well…the subject line told everything he needed to say but the responder was either stupid or ignorant and decided to blast the guy for his assumed incompetance. I’m sure that was a turn off for the guy asking the question and many others. It turned me off!
How many times have you seen someone post a question on a specific loco, car, technique, etc only to get chastized (sp?) for buying that brand, etc.
People go here for help and expect to get good information. Some of the Senior Members with many, many posts tend to be self-righteous and get to picking on these guys and gals. Even worse, someone asks a totally different question in the middle of the discussion and sends it way off course. How about starting a new topic rather than polluting the one at hand?
I don’t think the “foreigners” hold back because of language or communication problems. I’ve seen a lot of posts from Germany, Sweden, Italy and other places and it’s obvious they aren’t fluent in English but I’ve always been able to understand what they were asking. I commend them for participating when they aren’t conversant. I speak a little Spanish and can sometimes understand what I hear but I’d NEVER consider writing or posting to a Spanish speaking forum! A lot of English speakers here need to take some lessons too…as a matter of fact I’ve seen them blasted HERE for improper grammar, spelling and punctuation.
Anyway, I think a lot of people are looking for fun but get discouraged from participating when they see the crap a lot of
I usually make it a habit to not post if I don’t have a valid reason to.A lot of times I can get the info I need from reading some ones else’s questions and their answers.
As for the so called elite slamming someone for their choices I think it is totally uncalled for and will definately get a reply from me,but not on the forum.
The guest/member ratio may simply be that the member is not logged in. I stalk the forums several times a day without logging in and I am sure there are others who do the same.
As to the participant part…well I have backed way off the last couple of years for a couple of reasons. One was my modeling ability being called into question a couple of times. The latest being that an engine I built and refered to as being scratch built was deemed by a few to not have been scratch built but instead just a collection of parts. This has basicaly led me to not showing much of what I do anymore here.
I doubt that this is a phenomena specific to this form. There are “lurkers”, as they are called, involved in just about any and every forum that I have ever been associated with. Some people are truly just passing through, others may simply feel more comfortable participating as spectators. Often you learn a lot more by keeping the ears open and the mouth closed. So welcome “guests”!
I lurk on several forums. Some forums are just to hostile for me to bother with, I read them but never write. Reason being I enjoy some of the posts on those forums but since people are so belligerent I won’t let my self get drawn in to senseless arguments. This forum is a nice one in contrast to some I’ve seen.
About posting, I generally post if I got something to add to a thread or because I want some info or show something that I’ve done and get compliments and constructive criticism. What I see as a problem is the amount of people who just answers any post while not really contributing. Some id fun but some is just irritating. Some of the posts are just pointless while other bring up info that was never requested or just so basic that I would assume that anyone asking a specific question within that topic probably already knows about it. This senseless posting of useless info really gets to me sometimes since it often de-rails the thread, first of I if I started the post or the OP in an other case have to write and say thanks for the info but I already know that. But that often very generic info gets the ball spinning and soon other contribute with even more basic useless info.
It’s not that I don’t apreciate info, I love it and I’m always grateful for it. But sometimes people should try to restrain them self’s rather then showing their limited knowledge on a topic by answering something close to the question. Maybe it’s my academic training that gets in the way here and I might be totally wrong.
An example of such a question could be(using a fictional one as an example):
Me: How far could a Big Boy run between it had to get new water?
A : It depends on x and x. If you can be more specific I can help. (relevan
I agree with Catt - there is no reason to post if you have nothing to say. That way we reduse the amount of garbage replies here…[{(-_-)}]
On the other hand - I have been a MR & Train etc subscriber for quite some time now, from mid 1980ties I guess, this is not even my 60th post here, but I have read and enjoyed this forum a lot. Often I take a look into this forum without logging in. Then I am a guest, but I do not need to brag that I am here all the time… but I have paid my fees so to say even if this is a FREE forum, and is allowed to use this forum nevertheless.
And then at last this system does not tell the truth all the time, as discussed earlier. The list of in-logged members do not reflect the real status all the time. You can be logged in, but this does not guarantees that your name is in the in-logged list. Not even the number of guests are allways true. Just ask Bergie or others that really know this system in and out.
On the other hand why has not anyone sent a picture of a BigBoy in this thread…[#offtopic]
Greeting from a time-to-time sneaker
Guests reading this thread are no more “sneaking” that a person would be reading a book in a library is “sneaking”.
I don’t think this thread has an unusual participant to lurker ratio, it seems about typical for a forum based on other forums in which I have participated.
I think it may have been a good point about just not being logged on, I assume that would show as a “visitor”?? Could be the time of year too, many modellers start in the hobby this time of year (I know my first MR was the Dec 1971 issue) so maybe these are new people checking out websites to get info about buying their first trainset (or for their kids - it works better if you say it’s for ‘the kids’) or wanting info on how to convert the trainset to a real layout.
I always thought it a good idea to “lurk” for a while on some foorums just to get a taste of what really goes on. At least, that tends to be what newbies get told anyways.
As for the ‘critic’ who appears to think they know more about scratchbuilding than others do I’d just say give the critic a raspberry. I tend to think that they are just being annoying anyway—like blackflies in Algonquin Park…
Maybe for the same reason people drive slowly past a car accident. They are repulsed and upset but somehow cannot avert their eyes …
Dave Nelson
I was one of the sneakers or lurkers for quite some time. The main reason was I was interested in getting involved and I was checking out the forums without signing up. I noticed quite a bit of exactly what oldline1 described. I am not nearly “at the level” of many of these people and didn’t want to get nailed because I asked a stupid question. I also have never participated in a forum before and wasn’t sure, and I’m still not totally, how the thing works. So after reading some posts where people get blasted for improper usage of stuff I was apprehensive about getting involved.
Spelling and grammar. Yes I do believe that we all should spell and use proper grammar. However this is not the place to blast someone because they don’t spell so well. Spell check or not. Most every one can understand what someone is trying to say even if u spel a werd rong. Were for where used in a sentence I can figure it out. Sometimes the common abbreviations are more difficult to understand. I once read with wonder a thread (about what escapes me) that carried on in length about the use of an apostrophe as used in relation to the “s” at the end of a word. ??? I’ll want to post to that one Many times people just type fast and fat finger the keys. Especially if you’re like me and don’t type fast but are trying to.
I’ve read where someone sends in a picture and many times someone picks it apart. Not in a helpful way, but in a “that looks horrible” way. I want to break out the camera and post for that bunch too.
We don’t all know the same stuff. Many are beginners or returners like me who really need a lot of what many refer to as basic information. I was a mechanic for my entire adult life and believe me, when you’re having problems, you’d be surprised how something simple and basic gets over looked when you’re amongst all that stuff under the hood. Sometimes the level of animosity of a forum to show my ignorance is more comfortable than the face to face experts at the LHS who feel my railro
I post fewer and fewer replies and original posts in the MR site because of some of the reasons folks have already mentioned, and my model railroading forum activity has been re-directed somewhat to other modeling forums so it takes away from my time here too. One other reason that has kept me away from the MR site and forum is the recent site redux. This must be the 4th time in the last 3 years that the site and MR forum has been “upgraded” and I actually find it less user friendly each time, and I work in the IT industry too!
Ah heck, I wasn’t going to bring this up, but here goes. Just yesterday I was ready to submit a new thread on my recent backdrop work and then backed out of it because I was concerned that folks would rip it up. I guess my thick skin has thinned out a bit, in the past I did not care much if someone ripped my work, I only try to share what I have learned and have never professed to be a subject matter expert here. I may just post that thread anyway, what the heck!
I could also sum up my feelings on this matter in the quote by Plato:
“Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.”
So, yes, I too am guilty of doing more sneaking around and lurking than participating!
I agree, that we’re a pretty friendly/helpful group.
Regarding the guests, I suspect that many of them are non-model railroaders who did a google search and our forums are one of the results. They clicked the link and now they are our guests. Many of them probably only stay long enough to see that we are just a discussion group and leave, I wonder if a few of them catch an interesting thread and begin their way down the model railroading path. Then there are those who lurk without logging in. Still, I suspect that most are web-surfers who happened onto us by chance.
Finally, I like the analogy to zoo animals, but I doubt that we’re really that interesting to observe.
I lurked around the edges for quite a while, until I encountered a thread about something I felt I could contribute to. Then I signed up and joined in.
I would hardly say the guests/lurkers are ‘sneaking.’ After all, there is a welcome mat out for them. Today’s guest might be the one who joins, then provides that one key piece of data you need to build the perfect model of (fillintheblank.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
[quote user=“oldline1”]
I know what you’re talking about as I’ve noticed this too.
Here’s my idea on why many prefer to lurk and watch rather than participate.
I read a couple posts recently that upset me. One fellow asked a question about a locomotive problem and was blasted by the 2nd or 3rd poster for not telling us what manufacturer he was asking about. Well…the subject line told everything he needed to say but the responder was either stupid or ignorant and decided to blast the guy for his assumed incompetance. I’m sure that was a turn off for the guy asking the question and many others. It turned me off!
How many times have you seen someone post a question on a specific loco, car, technique, etc only to get chastized (sp?) for buying that brand, etc.
People go here for help and expect to get good information. Some of the Senior Members with many, many posts tend to be self-righteous and get to picking on these guys and gals. Even worse, someone asks a totally different question in the middle of the discussion and sends it way off course. How about starting a new topic rather than polluting the one at hand?
I don’t think the “foreigners” hold back because of language or communication problems. I’ve seen a lot of posts from Germany, Sweden, Italy and other places and it’s obvious they aren’t fluent in English but I’ve always been able to understand what they were asking. I commend them for participating when they aren’t conversant. I speak a little Spanish and can sometimes understand what I hear but I’d NEVER consider writing or posting to a
I too lurked before signing up, just to be more familiar with the forum. And I still sometimes don’t log on, but just read the posts to see whats interesting reading.
But sneaking? Nope. If its on the web, its there for all to see.
Guys, A lot of those "Guests " can be search bots or spam bots-these are the pesty things that leave spam in forums that keeps moderator busy keeping them in check-even with a high sitting some still manages to sneak in by using a common e addy.
Several of my friends “lurk” but,won’t join in because of the-suffice to say what was already been posted.
The discussion is interesting. I’m a member and I’m logged in but when I look at the “who’s on” section I don’t appear. I guess I don’t exist.
Joe