Guidance to a New Model Railroader :)

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Good Evening/Morning all!

I am fairly new around these parts and thought i may enquire some help from the experts :slight_smile:

I am a avid train fan and getting a bit older i have thought why not invest my time into a hobby i will love and help grow with a passion

I have recently become a Subsciber of MRR and as such have found the layout that i will rather enjoy building,

Catcus Valley

As some of you may or may not know this is a 4x8 HO Layout,

As such i have gone out and purchased a 4x8ft MDF 14mm thick sheet to begin my railroading dream.

Also i have grabbed 17x 900mm Flex track

17x 900mm Corkbed

2x L/H Life LIke Turnouts

2x R/H Life Like Turnouts,

A few loco’s (Lifelike, Bachmann,Hornby to name a few)

Now being rather new to MRR my issues are as follow,

Not knowing where to start? - What to use for planning…e.g use a pencil and place the track on the MDF board and trace a line? Any suggestions on this would be great!

Cactus Valley from what i can see has A LOT of elevation, As such i am still learning on what to use to elevate my track, From my reading i have seen that plywood trestles with a 5mm plywood base on top can do fine,

Other suggestion was using foam.

I have also recently purchased a Hornby Digital Select Controller and as such have a few DCC questions

From what i know my points are already DCC Capable, Is there anything else i am required to do to my track or power options for DCC?

With Australian Power I am fairly sure this Controller can output around 15-16vdc? If so is this okay for running say 2-5 trains at any one time?

Also with DCC, Am i still able to run DC loco’s with the hornby digital select?

I thank you all for taking the time to read this post and if ANY of you have any usuful websites to visit or youtube video’s to watch please do not hesitate to say so, I am happy to receive any help i can get to ensure i

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Personally, I would not use MDF as the base for a layout. Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about it; how it is made; what it contains; etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard

I believe 1/2 inch plywood, adequately supported by a rigid framework and covered with Homosote, SoundBoard, or styrofoam would be much better.

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[:-^]

The very best thing you could do right now is to get yourself a copy of the paper backed book put out by our sponsors here, Kalmbach Publishing entitled Benchwork. I as well believe you should stay away from MDF. All of their other books are excellent as well, wiring, scenery, structures, weathering, DCC, etc…

On the black strip above just under the MR banner go to the right end and click on “SHOP” then scroll down to “BOOKS” that will lead you to a selection and then click on Basics. You will find everything you need right there.

Johnboy out…

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A few thoughts and opinions from me - guaranteed to be worth every cent you paid for them!

I’m not a big fan of building a flat top layout, especially for a plan that has grades and elevations. But it seems we all start our first layout with a flat top anyway. The recommendation for a book on benchwork is a very good one - I like Linn Westcott’s book best. However, Westcott does not address using foam for layout construction very well.

The MDF (or plywood) is pretty useless without a supporting frame of some kind. It will sag without the supports about every 16" or so. If you are going to build a decent supporting frame, you then do not need the solid flat top. You only have to put support under the cork roadbed, and for various scenery items. This is usually done with a plywood subroadbed. An easy way to get the subroadbed cut is to lay the plywood sheet on the floor, and lay the actual track pieces in their position on the plywood. When you have the track

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if I recall the LL turnouts are steel. Rather than waste a full sheet, why not rip it into 2-4" strips, add 1x3 on the ends and you have a strong “I” beam. With some lateral support every 24 inches or so you could put 2 inches of foam down and lay the track on that. just remember to shape as desired paint then it with a latex houspaint to seal it .using this method you could have a 14x8 foot rectangle with plenty of room for elevation changes.

i am not sure if hornby will work with other decoders. something to look into.

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First rule of thumb Almost anythink made by Life-Like probably isn’t very Life Like IMHO) except some of their buildings. I think the OP was referring to LL standard turnouts not power loc so no they don’t have roadbed but even if they do cork roadbed will raise standard track to the right height.

Second from reading the desciption of MDF in wikipedia I do not think you’ll be happy with it as a subroadbed. At the very least I would glue a sheet of homosote to make nailing easier. Better yet 2 or 3 layers of pink foam board that you can carve.

7

Well re the OP I was going to suggest “read at least five books on track planning, layout building and benchwork construction before you buy anything”…but I guess it’s too late. [;)]

I’d suggest at this point starting small. Get enough track (preferably something like Kato Unitrack that is easy to work with) and make an oval of track and get some experience running the DCC system you have. Unfortunately the Hornby system isn’t (AFAIK?) available in the USA so I doubt anyone here can offer much advice on it.

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Hi All!

WoW! Thanks for all the replies so far!

To Answer a few questions i have spotted, Yes i am using the Standard LL Turnouts (Steel) No elevation,

It seems i really have made a mistake using MDF board for my first layout then, Will have to change it to plywood,

I do remember watching a video the other day on youtube of a couple of fellow’s making the support, the table, tracklayout and basically the entire set, From what i noticed there they are using Foam layered on top of each other wedding cake style as suggested, I’d be guessing this is what you are recommending?

Any help as stated is greatly appreciated as its helping myself become the MRR i have always dreamed about :slight_smile:

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Kodil-

First of all, [#welcome] to the hobby and to our humble forum. You sound very enthusiastic, and that’s a great thing.

However, let me second Stix’s advice: put your wallet away for a little while. You will do much better in the hobby if you consider your options carefully and make good purchase decisions.

You may have gathered from the first couple of responses that most of us aren’t too thrilled with your purchase of MDF for your layout base, and aren’t real keen on LifeLike track products, either.

Since the majority (though by no means all) of us are North Americans, we’re a little vague on the capabilities of the Hornby system you’ve acquired, but generally speaking, no, DC and DCC don’t play very well together (some systems, at most, allow you to run one DC loco on a DCC layout – although it is possible to have alternate power supplies to run both types at different times), and your primary concern is AC amps (0.5 per non-sound equipped loco), not DC volts.

As far as locomotives go, the brands you’re aiming for are at the bottom of the heap, quality wise. Generally, with locos and rolling stock, you get what you pay for, so it’s better to save up and invest in higher quality stuff rather than run out and buy a bunch of cheap stuff that will give you trouble later.

I know you have your heart set on Cactus Valley at this point, but have you considered other arrangements than a 4x8. Not that a 4x8 can’t be a perfectly servicable layout, but it’s also rather limiting. Also, as a beginner, you may find that a flat layout (that is, all track at the same level) will give you less trouble with operations. Your scenery can go up and down and every which way, but level track is easier to lay and generally requires less precision and skill than elevation changes.

So, if you’re still rushing in headlong, your first decision is to decide whether you want a flat table top surface to build on or open grid with s

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MDF of a suitable thickness is quite suitable for roadbed or subroadbed if supported reasonably and if treated and oriented so that its limitations don’t exceed its advantages.

I used laminated 1/4" thick ply for my spline roadbed with great success. That was five years ago, and it is as good today as it was when I felt it was ready to begin laying track on it in 2006.

If you are concerned about off-gassing, or worried that it may sag if allowed to get too humid in your train room, paint it with urethane. I start running a dehumidifier just about now each year, and in fact just emptied the catchment vessel under mine last night for the first time…it had run off and on for about two days.

Crandell

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Dave Frary, author of the Cactus Valley article series, has placed the article series on the Internet for free download.
http://www.mrscenery.com/pdf/Cactus_Valley.pdf

The Cactus Valley HO layout information is also available on Google Books

If you haven’t seen this, it gives a lot of step-by-step guidance. The way he built the benchwork is probably a bit more than is necessary, as it was designed to be moved around. But it’s a very workable solution.

You’ll see that he didn’t use a solid sheet of plywood, but cut it into shapes to support the track sections and scenery.

Note that Mr. Frary is an extremely accomplished model railroad builder, so the grades were no problem for him. I see that there are a couple of sections with effective grades as steep as nearly 4% with little room for transitions from level to grade.

The challenge for a newcomer to layout building with grades this steep will be to make these grade transitions smoothly enough for trains to operate reliably. It’s not impossible, but will take some careful work.

Another plan with less demanding grades might be a better choice for a first layout. Or expanding the same plan to a 5X9 platform instead of 4X8 would give you more room for broader curves and gentler grades (as well as man

12

Well A bit of a status update!

Moving along rather nicely so far

Have been learning to avoid Lifelike Gear like the plague (It really is horrible stuff hey!)

Haven’t had many issues with the MDF Board Thus far,

Have Finally Finished the track layout As you can see - Far different to the original plan due to as described in these posts…Cactus Valley is for the Veterans :slight_smile: Will start forming the mountain sides soon on the far right side to cover the inner and outer track

Have wired 3/5 Points (Due to swap the Lifelike one because of the track being steel/aluminium)

Still having a major trouble figuring out how to wire my Signals in conjunction with the points

From my understanding the current signal i have

I think i need a bit of an explanation as to HOW the above signal works.

And if anyone has any idea’s on how to wire them along side the solenoid points so when they switch the light changes (Trouble I’m having is keeping the signal constantly on as the solenoid only provides a short burst)

Here is a picture of the layout so far

I am unsure on how to measure the radius of a curve (Due to my maths skills being below average)

So the inner track may be a tad too tight for say a flying Scotsman :frowning:

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2337/currentwork.jpg

Let me know any thoughts issues problems.

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Real signals like that one are not just driven by the position of the points. The logic is a lot more complex. You can do something simpler (basically just cosmetic) on the model, of course, many folks do.

You’ll need additional latching logic, either electronics and/or a relay. This is one of the advantages a stall motor designed for model railroading (like a Tortoise) has over solenoids – the contacts are right on the switch motor. The Atlas Snap Relay might be useful in this situation, depending on how the solenoids are wired/controlled.

Measure across the 180-degree curve, from track-center to track-center. That’s the diameter. Divide by two. That’s the radius.

Looks like about 20-21 inch radius if that’s a 4X8 sheet.

By the way, most folks don’t leave their tracks nearly as close to the edge as you have done on the outside track. Trains at the very edge of the layout can easily fall off and be damaged in a derailment or bumped off by operators reaching in or walking by. That will likely be

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Just some words of encouragement here. We all have to start some where and I am so happy to see track on a piece of wood, no matter how finsihed or unfinished it is. My first layout, if I can even use that term, after I got my first N scale train set back in the late 1960s, was an Arnold Rapido four car set with a CNW loco, a box car, a gondola, and a caboose. I didn’t have anything like a sheet of plywood around, so I took my chalk board, flipped it over and glued the track down in a circle. I think it even hung over the edges a little bit. I glued some green lichen down for scenery and I ran that train for hours and hours. I was hooked. And the rest they say is history. Welcome.

-Paul

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Fairly Intense stuff! As for me just looking to go with Cosmetic! Something nice and simple. Just something that will change when ever i change the points.

I have around 5 relay boxes sitting here atm but my main concern is the back EMF they will produce when switching should this still be okay?

But apart from that the Atlas Snap Relay’s Look fairly good! I do have some Lifelike Switches that look exactly like the ones displayed in that diagram…has me wondering if they are the same?

Sure is! 4x8, I tried to make the curves as nice and smooth as i could (All done by hand no tools ect)

[quote user=“cuyama”]

By the way, most folks don’t leave their tracks nearly as close to the edge as you have done on the outside track. Trains at the very edge of the layout can easily fall off and be damaged in a derailment or bumped

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Hi and [#welcome] to the foru!

Most of us fuddy-duddies around here are good for something {not sure we know what yet, but…}

I, too, agree that your outside loop is to close to the edge. WHat I did on my smaller layout was to FRAME it with 2x4s with the layout board INSDIE the 2x4 frame {will require two 2x10’s cut to about 8 feet 3 inches long for the sides {here in the USA} and two 2x4’s cut to about 51 inches for the ends. Measure TWICE or THRICE and Cut once, compensating for the overhangs of the 2x4s.

Then you will have an extra 1.5 inches on each side for the trains easment out of and around curves. THEN I would put a strip of plexiglass about 6 inches high screwed to the sides and sitting about 3" above the layout. THat way your trains are very well protected form derailing and falling off the layout and yet still clearly visible.

Second, for future purchases I woudl stay away from any steel track as it is prone to rusting. You may have it in a climate controlled room, but it can still rust and reduce electrical contact. I would certainly stick with Nickel Silver track.

Third, a flat 4 x 8 is fine to get you started and to give yousome enjoyment for a long while while you plan another layout if you like.

I have a 4 spur yard and a 2 spur engine servicing/storage tracks inside my two ovals. Just a thought if you’d like a little extra “fiddling” to do and/or you want a place on the layout to “store” RR cars or other engines…just be sure not to exceed your DCC systems amp capacity with idle locos in an electrified track. I put in a switch to shut off current to the engine tracks inside the oval. Just some thoughts to geive you more play, WHat I do is I consist a train formthe yard track of RR cars with one engine, take it out to the outter track for “highballing” and them consist another trains inthe yard with a second engine and run it “highballing” on the inside loop. I then when done for the time/day. I de-consist one trai