So I am thinking about building a HOz/H0i layout for an island service/micro layout running 0-4-0 or 0-6-0. I would like to run on commercially available Z gauge track and am planning on building the rest. So my questions for you folks are:
Can I get just the wheel set with motor and gears (power chassis?) in z gauge?
How easy/is it even possible to re-gauge a larger scale locomotive down? Like take an N scale locomotive, remove the shell and re-gauge it to z.
Is there anywhere to purchase pre-built H0i/HOz models or am I really looking at handcrafting rolling stock and everything?
And finally is anyone out there working on, or have, a H0i/HOz layout?
Not impossible I suppose, but an unlikely proposition.
Z scale (1:220) track (6.5 mm gauge) is something like about 22" gauge in HO scale. The model would thus be of something about the proportion of a children’s excursion train around a zoo. This is not a gauge that was utilized in the US. Combine something that small with only an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 mechanism, and serious contact/conductivity problems could be anticipated. I do not know of any commercial items available in this scale/gauge combination. For most of the N scale mechanisms I’ve seen there is not sufficient space between the mechanism and the interior face of the wheel to allow compressing the wheels in to the extent necessary.
The experience in going from HO to HOn3 shows a couple of considerations:
split axle designs are easier to re-gauge. Narrowing the gauge means shortening each half-axle. Older designs with single, full-width axles are a lot more work.
The limiting factor will typically be the width of the worm gear(s). The gear may be too wide to narrow the gauge sufficiently. It’s not a small jump from N (9mm) to Z (6.5mm).
In an ideal world, HOn2 would have used either the correct 7mm gauge or Z (6.5mm) instead of the larger N (9mm) gauge. But Z did not exist when the early HOn2 modelers chose HOn30 as the easiest way to get started and achieve a resemblance to 2ft gauge in HO. There is still a fair bit of HOn30 work going on, and there are a fair number of HOn30 models available. Many are industrial prototypes rather than just 2ft prototypes. The industrial prototype
Have you looked at HOn30 which represents 2 foot gage? These locomotives are in limited supply, when compared to standard gage but are avaialble. They use N scale mechanisms and resin or brass on top.
Track is the same track width as N scale standard gage; Peco has some good looking HOn30 track in flextrack; they also make a funkey looking flextrack if you are doing a logging railroad
2 foot gage was used in Maine quite a bit. If you do not want North America, 2 foot gage was used in Wales in the slate and coal mining industry.
Train & Trooper is the go to place for information on Maine Narrow gage http://www.trainandtrooper.com/
It appears that he is in the process of changing web hosts right now, but if you are interested save the address and keep checking back. I KNOW he is not going out of business - Just getting ready to move from Phillips, ME to Readfield, ME
You can use Z scale locomotives and modify / scratchbuild the super structure. Also look for Nn3 sites (N scale using Z gauge) for parts/engines that you could use.
If anyone has RTR locomotives it will most likely be describes as HOn2 not HOz,
One site for Nn3 that might have parts you can use is
60 centimeter gauge is close to 22" and was/is definitely not a children’s gauge. Equipment is “man-sized” and the gauge wasn’t uncommon for industrial railways in Europe, Africa, and South America. There is a former logging railroad, now tourist railroad, of that gauge in very southern Argentina.
HOn2 using Z scale mechanisms and trucks is definitely do-able, but Z scale equipment is usually sold ready to run. Re-gauging N scale wheels might prove problematical. Do you have some specific prototype in mind, or are you planning a freelance operation?
Bill, WWI trench railways (and their 600mm gauge offshoots/derivatives) could be modeled in HO on Z scale mechanisms and trucks. The US Army standard loco was a 2-6-2. In addition, there were gasoline-powered `critters.’ Several Army posts had 600mm rail training facilities clear up to the WWII era, and there were several civilian users of surplus WWI engines and rolling stock in the US. Of course, there are 762mm operations outside the US, including 2 in Japan which are engineered more like the N&W mainline than like any amusement park ride.
Fred, HO scale on 9mm (N scale) track is slightly over gauge for 2’6"/762mm gauge, which is what the rest of the world knows as HOe or HOn762. That scale-gauge combination is what I will probably end up using on my logging feeder (Kiso Forest Railway prototype.) People who model 2 foot gauge prototype on 9mm gauge track have made a compromise similar to HOj - a quick and dirty way to use existing mechanisms that are over-gauge for the scale.
George, There may be some 2-foot prototypes modeled to run on 9mm gauge rails, but most of the world uses it to model prototypes that ran on 2’6"/762mm gauge. Granted that there are a lot of prototype operations outside the US, and not many inside the US, that used that gauge in 1:1 scale.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - including two 762mm gauge railways)
Chuck, I was thinking of using the narrow gauges of South America and the 600 mm WWI trench railways as a prototype for a freelance island/coastal South American town. The hope is to start with a tourist town and add some industrial/supply items all of whom will be serviced by the 600 mm rail running from the docks inland. Ideally it would be based somewhere in the steam era.
Fred, I look have been looking at HOn30 however the few prototypes and industrial rails I have seen just wouldn’t look right in HOn30 if the rest of my layout is HO. I am not thinking of having a full locomotive or covered cars, but more like a small industrial shuttle. I really like the look of the WWI 600mm trench rails and am just going off the deep end into freelancing from there.
George, I was thinking of adding a HOn30 logging/mining branch line elsewhere on the (planned) layout but I don’t’ think it would work right for what I have in mind here.
Paul, Thanks for the great tips, I love the signature.
Mark, That is fantastic! do you have any other pictures of the line?
Thank you all so much for the thoughts and insights.
In Great Model Railroads 2012 there is coverage of Ray Grosser’s O-scale layout which includes a loop of Z-scale track as an amusement ride/outdoor railroad using an F unit.
Mark & Chuck: I’m aware of the very narrow gauges used in other countries or in some industrial situations. Some of that WW1 military equipment did make it into use in the United States. The Winchester Lumber Company operated such 60cm (gauge of 1 foot, 11 5/8 inches) Army surplus equipment for a logging operation along the Lost River west of Wardensville, West Virginia. The railroad was known as the Lost River Railroad. The first Vulcan 2-6-2T arrived in 1922. The line lasted until 1931. This logging line connected with the western terminus of the Winchester & Western Railroad (which still operates from Winchester as far west as Gore, VA). Photos and a more extensive history is found in Winchester & Western Railroad by Lawrence P Winnemore, published in 1975 as Bulletin No. 3 of the Washington, D.C. Chapter of the NRHS.
As suggested in earlier posts, take a look at HOn30. I have purchased one of the diesels and one of the 0-4-0s from Big City Hobbies. I’ve test run these and they run quite nicely. I had the initial AHM rendition of these models back in about 1968 or so, and they only had the two speeds of (a) stopped and (b) Warp 3. This is HO scale on N-gauge track, providing a wider selection of power units for adaptation if you wish to bash something. Peco offers narrow-gauge track for this which has the tie spacing more appropriate than just using N track. I have sketched out a plan for a mini-layout using HOn30 and HO standard and am acquiring the equipment… sort of a long-term preperation in case I have to move to an apartment or smaller space but still want a layout. HOn30 can run on 9’ radius…
The Arizona Copper Co RR was 20" guage, it was also known as the Coronada Mining RR. Their are many examples of under 24" gauge lines in the US. Its just they are not very well known as they were quite small industrial lines.
Thornblood - the loco is a Beyer-Garratt engine, which has the coal bunker at the rear end, and the water tank at the front end.
Here is another shot of a 2 ft. Beyer-Garratt, operated by the Welsh Highland Railway in norther Wales. This is an ex South African Railway loco. The picture was taken in Carnaervon, the northern terminus of the line.
A HO kit of this loco, operating on N scale track, is available from Backwoods Miniatures.
