So I was doing some handlaid turnout construction practicing tonight. Things were going well. My frog was looking sweet. My switch points were sharp and burr-free.
But then when I went to spike everything into place, things went downhill.
I was practicing on a piece of scrap 2 x 4. I quickly discovered that the density of the wood varies enough to make spikes impossible to drive into some spots. And if it’s where I need spikes, I’m out of luck!
So I’m looking for alternatives, including homasote.
Has anyone used it for hand spiking? I like the idea of wood - seems like it will hold spikes forever, but the natural variation is just too great. I suppose an alternative may be to get some real high quality wood or something.
I may also consider soldering to PC ties instead of spiking. The cool thing about spiking is that I could ballast first - which gives perfect-looking ballasting.
Homasote is perfect. Consistent texture and holds spikes well. There are also several other varieties of wood you may want to try that might do what you want. I would take a handful of spikes and head for Lowes or Home Depot and see what’s what.
How about predrilling the ties and wood with a bit smaller than the diameter of the spikes? It would allow the spikes to be driven and still hold tight.
read some cool things about using pliobond after doing a google search.
Gluing would allow me to use cork roadbed instead of custom cutting pine or homasote. (yes, I’ve seen homabed, but the prices are a bit much for my super-cheap track construction I’m trying to pull off…)
CARRfan,
Don’t give up on handlaying, so far it seems you are experimenting with spiking into the totally wrong product. Wood densities itself isn’t the solution. All construction lumber, whether, spruce, douglas fir or hemlock tend to have wild/ radical changes in the grain. If you want to spike into wood, instead of an alternative- homosote, you need to use clear pine Idaho sugar or white. the grain is the most consistant and only on a rare occation would you have to predrill as not to knock the rail out of wack. Clear pine “lath” 1/4" x 2" can usually be found at a quality lumber lard in with the moldings. This is a fairly expensive way to go however, because the cost will add up quickly. you could almost buy Homabed at this point.
An alternative, as we do in my club, Is to rip “D” select or “C” or better 1x6 or 1x8 into roadbed and turnout base. We do have an extensive shop at our disposal, so doing this may not be for you. The pine roadbed has worked great for our purposes. The club’s tracks are either pine(roadbed) on 3/4" quality plywood or pine roadbed on pine spline. With this we have a mix of handlaid and Walther’s/ Shinahara 83 flex. Has worked satisfactorily so far. Have you also given any thought to Joe Fugate’s method of laminated masonite? There are many other options hope others can also put their 2cents in, to help you out.
Bob K.
As I’m in the same club with Bob K. (Hi, Bob!), I agree 100% with what he’s saying. In fact, I liked what my club’s been doing so much that I did it on my home 25’ x 50’ layout (Bob helped me cut some).
I bought medium grade pine 1"x6"x10’ from a quality lumber yard (not Lowe’s or Home Depot). Cost me about $10 for one board. The trick in this is that you have to take your time and pick, pick, pick your way through the lumber pile to get just the right board that’s straight and relatively knot free. It’s then ripped it into thirds with a table saw, making three 1x2" pieces. Then each piece is placed on edge, and ripped it in half. Next was to cut the shoulders and you’re done.
Now, to curve the pine roadbed you do have to slot cut it along the inside of the curve to get to to bend, but it’s not that hard. Just put a saber saw upside down in a bench vise and use that to slot it.
You can buy totally clear pine, but expect to pay twice as much. I was able to get 60’ of roadbed for just $10…
Here are two of the finest roadbed and highest quality roadbed products available to serious MR on the market today. If you are looking for professional results, check out these to excellent suppliers:
Homabed is a homasote beveled or unbeveled roadbed product milled and ready to use. Tru-Scale Roadbed is a basswood product also ready to use. Both are fine products and look wonderful.
You should try using a Dremel with a drill bit slightly smaller in diameter than a spike to drill pilot holes for the spikes.
Most of the model crossites I have seen are redwood, which is a softer wood than pine or fir, but tends to split if a pilot hole is not drilled.
It would probably also be a good idea to practice on whatever type of material you are using for your layout surface instead of a scrap piece of 2x4 so you’ll get a better idea of how well the spikes are going to hold.
Home Depot carries clear pine mullions in 1 3/8" wide and 2" wide the profile when laid on a flat surface is ideal for ballasting . Plus it is soft enough to push a safety pin in to.
For handlaid track (and turnouts), I use good old Walthers Goo contact cement. A very fine bead of it put on the bottom of the rail and then place the rail carefully in place works well. The rail can (or should) be then heated with a soldering iron along the top. The glue will bond tightly and will stay in place perfectly for many years. I have rail and turnouts put down this way over 20 years ago and they are still perfectly in guage. You can then spike the rail as you please pre-drilling holes for the spikes.
So you end up with spiking plus glue in some cases, is that correct?
Do you prefer only glue, or only spikes?
And for you and everyone else - do you find pre-drilling necessary? I have been practicing without ties. Some practice with them would surely answer my own question for me.
I certainly prefer the look of the spiked rail. However, most of the hand laid stuff on the layout is not spiked as I never got around to it. One thing about the Goo, make sure that you do not use too much as it can glob up and cause running problems. Where I have had that happen, a little work with a #11 exacto knife can remove the leftovers. Back 20+ years ago, I read several articles on making structures and laying track using Goo. I have a Trestle bridge that is over 20 years old and still holding well also that is only held together with Goo. If the Goo has been heated, the tensile strength is something like 400Lbs. per square inch. Excercize some safty caution when working with Goo as it is a Rubber Cement that uses aecetone as a solvent which is pretty nasty stuff. I always used “profile” ties stained to get the look I wanted and laid them first over coark roadbed. Then I Gooed down the rail. You can buy standard scale ties for bridges I I still hand lay all my bridges, profile ties for the rest and you can get turnout packages that have several different lengths of ties for the turnouts. Prctice it a bit and see if it works for you. Have fun!
Have you looked into clear pine? I use 1/4 Lunan Plywood as a base for my code 83 rail turnouts, matter of fact I don’t even use ties on trackage that is not readily visible, I do however, put a dab of epoxy on my rail base every 5’ or so before spiking in place and also a dab of epoxy for every third spike in turnouts, I do depend on PC ties to maintain overall guage in all cases the epoxy is added insurance. Give the Luan Plywood method a try, you might find it the solution you seek.
Something that occured to me, is that if you use a bead of glue along the entire length of rail, the rail is actually bonded to every tie, unlike spiking or soldering, in which case you only bond to a certain percentage of ties.
How long of working time do you get with Goo? Or with Pliobond? Does it not really bond until you heat it up?
At the lumber yard renting a wheelbarrow today for some chores around the house - will check out the pine when I return it (work before play, you know…) in case I continue down the spiking path.
I use commercial track, but I have a custom crossing I plan to handlay when I get around to it. So I can’t speak of any real experience in spiking track when handlaying yet.
I am on the HOn3 list and there are quite a few experienced handlayers there. And everyone has their own opinion to a certain extent. However, it’s clear in that crowd that using lauan, like West Coast S suggested, is one of the more popular methods these days. It usually is a little less than 1/4" in thickness and is easy to cut to shape. You can bevel it, but if you plan it right, your ballast will cover things if you just leave it square on the edges.
A similar product that lots of people use is what’s called door skin. It is lauan plywood around 1/8’" thickness, so you’ll have to adjust spike length more with it to avoid overpenetration, unless you’re using a soft subroadbed underneath it like homasote. A lot of people have misgivings about relying exclusively on spking into homasote because of the tendency of spikes to loosen in it. But if you put down doorskin plywood over it and lay track on top, then your spikes have better holding power. And there’s really no need to bevel door skin at all, since it’s so thin anyway.
Like I said, it’s something I’ll try when I get a chance, but these both sound like good materials that give you consistent spiking effectiveness.
Regards,
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL