I don’t bevel my edges, I will knock the square edge off however, I’m not modeling mainline trackage so track close to the ground is the effect i’, after, weeds and all!! I like the Lunan for the flexibility of holding a sag to simulate undalating trackage, care must be used handlaying this not often seen feature. Lunan is rather new to me, so far i’m impressed with the spike holding ability and no guage problems to date.
Dave
Douglas fir isn’t as varied as pine, they are both soft woods, but pine is a very inferior quality of wood. MDF is the best bet I think, it’s hard, but doesn’t warp (unless it’s wet) and machines and works really nice.
Greg
CARRfan wrote:
That’s correct. 1x stock is a heckuva lot more uniform in density than any 2x stock. There are going to be exceptions, especially if you get something other than clear pine. Knots are, of course, all but impossible to spike into. Knots also don’t like being bent around curves. Two good reasons to avoid all knots if possible (but I didn’t want to pay $20 for a 10 foot 1x6").
As far as the job itselt, it’s rather tedious. But the results are worth it. Pine, IMHO, is the best roadbed material as it’s great at holding spikes, is very easy to work with, won’t dull your tools, and it’s cheap to boot.
The best way to handlay track, IMHO, is to first secure the RoW with the pine roadbed (45 degree shoulders is what I use). Next I use a tie jig (a piece of wood with ties glued to it that provides the right spacing for loose ties placed between them) and lay out a could feet of ties. After getting the ties on the jig, I then use narrow tape (1/4") and run the tape down the middle of the ties in the jig. When I lift on the tape, I get a flexible tie strip.
Now, I lay down a bead of Elmer’s wood glue on the roadbed, and then spread it around with my finger or with a piece of cardboard or wood. I make sure the glue coats from shoulder to shoulder, but not too thickly. I don’t want the glue to be all over the place.
Then it’s time to lay down the tie strip from the jig. Lay it down, tape side up, on the glued roadbed. Place heavy weights on the ties (after making sure everything is where it’s supposed to be), and wait for the glue t
As you have discovered, all pine is not created equal.
White pine, native to the northeast, is soft, easy to work with and accepts spikes the way my grandson accepts ice cream.
Southern yellow pine and Ponderosa pine, by comparison, are closely related to granite. So is the Douglas fir used for ordinary plywood and a lot of structural lumber.
I’ve been experimenting to see which locally available materials will end up under my hand-laid specialwork. So far, not all the evidence has been presented, so the jury has yet to begin deliberations.
Paul 3, thanks for all of you input!
I’m realizing there are many variations to handlaying, and I’m learning more about all the methods and weighing the pluses and minuses. There are people who swear by one method, some say, “never ballast first”, others say, “always ballast first”, etc.
It’s pretty neat how there are so many variations that I’ll possibly end up with my own variation. Before long, I may post a thread showing all the variations I could think of, then my chosen path (for now, anyway!).
I should add, one thing that makes me consider soldering or gluing rail is the fact that it takes a lot of force to drive a spike. So there you are, pushing with all your might to get that spike in. I don’t like that - because the situation is so fragile.
It’s as if someone tied a 50 lb weight to your grandmother’s fine crystal wine glass, and asked you to pick the glass up and carry it accross the room. Lots of force for a very fragile situation.
One alternative would be to pre-drill holes for every spike, but this could become extremely tedious.
At the moment, my pendulum is swinging towards gluing.
I’m currently thinking:
lay cork roadbed
place ties
sand & stain ties (I sure like your shoe polish idea - will likely try that).
lay NON-WEATHERED track with hot glue, etc.
Solder all feeders, etc.
Make sure everything is running flawlessly.
Airbru***rack from a low angle to mostly catch the rails
Wipe off rail head with paint thinner
Ballast track (could be done after nearby scenery is complete
Again, I’ve been all over the map on this, and so far have tried spiking with weathered and non-weathered rail.
I’m currently pretty anti-pre-weathered rail, because you can’t easily (or at least I couldn’t) get a shiny rail head.
I initally reall
CARRfan, I have no idea why anyone would want to ballast after the rail is laid. Sure, you have to with flex track, but why do that with handlaid? To me, it makes no sense. By ballasting first, you avoid splitting ties with the spikes, and you get to play with the ballast all you want without worrying about it stick to the rails or getting jammed in switch points, frogs, or gaurdrails. What possibly benefit can there be to not ballasting before laying rail?
The only ones that I know of that do are the track guys in my club. You know why? Because they think that ballast is scenery, and they don’t do scenery. Sigh. Personally, I think they’re just being lazy, but that’s IMHO.
Edit: If you’re using that much force to spike rail, you’re using the wrong stuff. What ever wood you use, you should be able to push in a thumbtack. If you can’t without killing your fingers, get softer wood.
BTW, personally, I wouldn’t handlay on cork. Somehow, I don’t think I’d like how the spikes would hold, nor how the ties would stay attached (being a different material) to the cork.
And as far as noise, it’s not as bad as you think. Sure, it’s more than foam or cork, but it’s not like it is when flex track is laid directly on plywood. Now that’s loud! [:)]
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Balsa wood is my choice, holds spikes very well, is easy to spike and is unaffected by water. Going to use it again on my next layout - starting shortly…
Tim
Paul, the benefit of ballasting after trackwork is done is that you could paint the sides of the rails with an airbrush.
I hear you about my roadbed being too tough. I’ll keep searching for some softer stuff while I ponder the gluing approach.
As for the cork, the idea is I’d use that if I didn’t spike, but glued instead. Gluing initially sounded crazy to me, but I’ve found the yahoo hand laid track forum, and some guys are swearing by it.
Still considering all the options…
I used pine to build a trestle, and ran into a few spots where it was difficult to place the spikes to hold down the rails. Within the first sixteenth inch or so, it was pretty obvious whether the spike wanted to go in or not. When I got to a difficult one, I found that gripping the spike only a 16th or an 8th inch above the tie surface allowed me to exert more pressure without bending the spike. If a spike did start to bend, I removed it, and went looking for a spike with a sharper point. They’re all in and holding well now.
In my case, the limit of spike resistance was very close to my perception of structure wrecking force necessary to overcome it, but working slowly got them all in without major problems.
CARRfan,
If one paints the rail after one has laid it with an airbrush, how does one keep from making the ties the same color as the rail? They aren’t the same color that I’ve seen…
Wouldn’t it make more sense to paint the rail with an airbrush off the layout? One could lay down several sections of rail on a piece of cardboard and spray the whole lot in one pass.
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
Paul, I was thinking about that also. Do you think it would work well to paint the rail, then as you’re laying it, using thinner to remove paint in small areas to solder to, etc.?
I was messing around with some wood in the garage - just poking spikes into different woods.
I’m starting to think it may be possible to be less frustrated with spiking if I could just buy the right wood - maybe high quality stuff with as few knots as possible.
Something else I’ve read about is making the roadbed from 1/4" thick strips of pine layed next to each other to accomodate curves, etc. If I were to use this approach, I could just rip tons of 1/4" thick pieces, then chop off all the knots and denser areas, leaving me with nice softer wood without a ton of waste.
Thoughts?
CARRfan,
I dunno about thinner. If you spill it or use too much, it may be a bit of a pain to clean up (and what will it do to the stained ties if it drips?). I’ve had success just scraping it off with the tip of a jeweler’s file. Some of the guys at the club have those micro-brushes made of metal that you can get from Micro-Mark. They advertise it as a track cleaner for soldering, and it works pretty well.
I haven’t heard of that approach with the 1/4" strips. It sounds like spline construction (which is something we’ve done at my club), but that’s something you want to use for subroadbed, not roadbed.
IMHO, I’d try buying different 1x boards of pine using different grades from different pumber yards. Just short lengths…enough to try them out. Then cut’em into roadbed and try it. Don’t commit to the pine unless you’re sure you’ve found something that works.
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
I got the 1/4" wide strips idea from MR - Michael Tylick article from Sept, 1989.
I just re-checked it - he used 1/2" wide strips, and 1/4" wide for sharper turns. Seems like a good idea - then you don’t have to do the little slices with a sabre saw to turn corners.
Good to know about the small brushes - I’ll have to look into those!
After looking at the dimensions of HO track, it seems the strips approach could be problematic. You could easily end up in situations where you’re trying to spike right at the seam of 2 stips. Not good. I’m not sure how Michael Tylick dealt with this exactly.
Been doing some searching at Lowe’s online - they sell higher quality pine as “craft board”. I’ll have to get down there and check the stuff out, but I’m guessing this will be knot-free stuff. More expensive than slicing & dicing my own 1x2x8, etc., but possibly more spiking-friendly.
I’ve been thinking of the pro’s & con’s of spiking vs. gluing, and one item that Paul brought up is the adjustability factor. Spikes are easy to adjust. Glue - possibly not as easy.
I do like the bullet-proofness of spiked rail. That stuff is not going anywhere, that’s for sure.
Still on the fence. Will likely try both methods and go from there.
I’m slowly being drawn back to spiking.
I’ve been doing lots of reading of people’s experiences with gluing online, as well as spiking. With spiking, you know the spikes will stay in pine forever. The long term strength of the glue seems suspect.
My main problem with spiking is using all my might to drive the spike. This will have to be taken care of by finding good quality softer pine to spike into.
Also, I’ve been playing around with not using a pair of pliers to drive the spike all the way in. Instead, I could start the spike with pliers, then push it in with a block of metal (happened to have some blocks of brass lying around).
Using the block greatly decreases my chance of slipping off the spike and slamming into the tie that I’m spiking into.
I bet with some more thinking/experimentation, I’ll figure out other methods besides the pliers to drive the spike in.
I like the adjustability of spikes, as well as robustness.
Thanks everyone for your tips.
Carrfan,
Hand laying track is time consuming and to do it right it will cost some money. For a contrarian view…
While there are those who use pine for roadbed in handlaying, the preferred material is homasote. There is a reason that it has been used for many years as the roadbed for hand laying… get some and see for yourself. You are going to spend a lot of time preparing your pine roadbed. Cookie cuttering homasote with a plywood subroadbed is going to be quicker and give you a more consistent surface to spike into. (Yes, I have used both methods) Just make sure that the pieces of homasote that you get are of even thickness…No humps and bumps…As to cost, Homasote is 25.00 for a 4 x 8 sheet. You have to cut it yourself, but it is pretty cheap.
As for trying to do this real cheap: What is your time worth??? It would be a drag to spend many hours laying some perfect track work and have it come out sub par because you cheaped out on materials…
I know that homasote has its drawbacks and many here will tell you about them. For hand laying nothing takes spikes quite like homasote. Most of the expert modelers I know who handlay still use homasote.
Trainnut, thanks for the homasote info.
My time is worth a lot, but I also enjoy some painstaking things (I’m a mechanical engineer, with a love for tinkering with microscopic details until something is perfect.
I also will be building a small layout. So a lot of work for roadbed, etc. isn’t necessarily a big problem.
Homasote sounds tempting, but I’ve also heard stories about spikes working loose over time, etc. Maybe I should my hands on some.
Gentlemen, below is a photo of the CPR main in south central BC, at a ballast quarry in the hamlet of Wallachin (wall-ah-SHEEN). You can plainly see that the rail is rusted and grimy, as are the plates and ties nearest the rails. By painting your rails AFTER ballasting, you can, if you adjust your airbrush properly, or use a handbrush and washes, get the same effect. I believe that Joe Fugate favours this approach, although I cannot recall his exact method of application.
Selector - very true. I am trying to take advantage (if possible) of the ability with handlaying track to have the rails and the ties a distinct different color.
However, I think it could all still look pretty good even if the ties and rail end up the same color (say, roof brown, or possibly darker). Or, like you say, spraying from the right angle, etc. could achieve some color variation from rails to ties.
Joe’s how-to advises using a fine brush, but not to worry if you slop “rust” onto the ties, for the reasons you posted.