I have a bunch of hand-laying stuff I bought just before I went on hiatus. I had planned to use cork as roadbed, but I just read the post about homosote and that it holds spikes better. Is cork a problem that I may end up regretting? I also heard that homosote and moisture don’t mix well. I have no lack of moisture in my basement.
I would suggest trying some to see how you like spiking into cork. I personally don’t think it holds spikes very well. YMMV. An alternative is Homabed, which is a milled Homasote.
The Homasote/water/humidity thing has been debated many times. Enough people have handlaid track on Homasote over the last 30-40 years or more that I would think if it were really a problem Homasote wouldn’t be as popular as it still is. I know at least one club layout built in the basement of an old house in SE Pennsylvania that is using track I laid 35 years ago on Homasote. So whatever the expansion or contraction issues are, they can’t be that horrible.
Probably the worst part of Homasote is that it isn’t flat, the surface can vary in thickness.
Like many old wives’ tales, no amount of factual information seems to put this to rest. The vast majority of the finest handlaid layouts I’ve seen were done on Homasote, including some in damp basements and many that have been around for decades.
The Homasote company even nailed some sheets to a wooden frame and left them outside for a couple of years in New Jersey. You can see from the photos that there is no pulling around the nails, as one would expect if there was a lot of expansion and contraction.
The wood probably moves more than the Homasote with changes in humidity.
As Dave mentioned, there are some variations in thickness. You can solve this by sanding the ties before laying rail (which you would probably want to do anyway) or buying the milled Homabed products.
Byron,
Wow! They want $1 per foot.
I am really ignorant on Homasote. Where do I get it? And what do you do in yards? And should the bevels be 45 degrees or 60 degrees.
My basement layout in Virginia used Homasote and held fine for over 20 years. Given the cost of the cork stuff, as well as the difficulty of fitting the cork to specialized track situations, I remain a fan of Homasote and have used it here on my shelf layout as well. There is no shortage of humidity here at the beach, even on the main floor. There were places on that old layout where I had adjusted the track layout at the yard throat several times, and the spikes still held well despite earlier track having been taken up in that area.
Most “big-box” lumber suppliers don’t carry Homasote. Search on-line under Homasote - they had site which gave the names of suppliers based on where you lived. Mine came from a “Stock Builders Supply” which markets mostly to contractors. They gladly special-ordered it for me and even delivered the sheets directly to my house.
On the issue of varying thickness: On that earlier layout which was built over a number of years, I did find that Homasote purchased today might not be the same thickness as something purchased five years ago. My suggestion would be to “lay in” enough for the entire planned layout, even if you don’t plan on actually building one wing or extension for some time. That way the Homasote will all be from the same “run” and will be consistent in thickness.
Bill
Thanks Bill.
I did a search on Homasote and found a supplier. It looks like at the smallest thickness, it is 1/2 inch thick. Is this correct? That seems like a pretty thick roadbed. Can it be bent into curves?
1/2 is the normal thickness used by modelers. Thickness is relative. How far is down? Once you put scenery over things it could be 4" thick. I know several modelers who cut the Homasote into 2" thick spline and screw 3 pieces on edge to make 1 1/2" wide, 2" thick, Homasote spline roadbed.
If you cut roadbed pieces that are 1 1/2 to 2" wide, you can curve them by cutting slots every 3-4" about 1/2 to 2/3 the way through the spline. Then bend it gently with the slots to the inside of the curve. If you are going to be doing small radius (below 24") I would just cut the arcs out and not try bending.
Caveat, sawing Homasote generally creates HUGE amounts of grey dust. If I have to cut straight edged pieces (for yards, etc) I generally use a utility knife and a straight edge. It takes a few minutes more but there is zero dust.
Thanks Dave,
Most of the hand-laying will in yard situations. Where I use it on the main, do I bevel it, or just let the ballast fill in the slope?
From the same website I referenced earlier, Homasote dealer finder
The official name of the product is Homasote 440 Sound Barrier
Chip,
I have been using homasote on my current layout. I cookie cutter it like plywood rather than cutting roadbed strips. I have tried all of the various cutting methods and have settled on a jigsaw with a fine tooth blade (tried the knife blade, didn’t like the cuts). I also cut up a bunch of strips like cork, took a long time and I still had to cobble them together under switches etc…
Dave is correct in that you can make cuts with a utility knife and a straight edge. I do this for small sections but have found it to be very hard on the hands (lots of pressure needed to make the cuts) for larger projects.
I fill the edges with light spackle to get the roadbed profile for ballasting.
If I were to offer one piece of advice it is this: Take your time at the lumber yard and select pieces that are as close to uniform in thickness as possible. Most sheets are wavy (varying in thickness along their length). I take a straight edge with me to check for dips and humps, usually I go through several sheets to find a good one. If you get an uneven one, you will spend lots of time sanding. Sanding homasote is probably the most unpleasant task I have encountered in the hobby so far…try to avoid it. The dust is nasty and gets everywhere, it sticks to vertical surfaces and is a major lung irritant (sets off my allergies).
I would use homabed if I were a rich man…
My two cents,
Guy
Thanks Guy,
Do you use it on top of plywood in your cookie cutter or do you use it by itself. If so, how often do you place supports?
Spacemouse
Homasote by itself doesn’t have the same structural strength as plywood. So supports would have to be fairly close together to prevent sagging (unless you use it spline-style). I assume the Homasote has no strength, and space supports based on the thickness of the plywood underneath the Homasote. 16" spacing seems to be about right (I’ve used 12" to 20") for 1/2" plywood subroadbed. When I’m ready to put in scenery, I cookie cutter both the plywood and the Homasote together. Then any scenery shell method can be used to span the spaces between the roadbed (fiberglass window screen overlaid with paper towels dipped in Plaster of Paris or plaster gauze over a cardboard strip grid has worked very well for me in the past).
On my current portable layout, I’m experimenting with Homasote on top of a 1/4" plywood/2" foam sandwich (2ft support spacing). I’m not sure of the right foam thickness for cookie cutter grades, but I’ll learn as I go. I’ve also learned that the overall thickness of the Homasote/foam/plywood is a big drawback on a layout with grades and tracks at different elevations. I’m not sure the extra thickness is worth the weight savings.
my thought, your choices
Fred W
I concur with the observations above: Homasote needs to be applied over top of ample plywood as it would sag otherwise. I used flat head wood screws to attach mine to the plywood. In yard areas, I would recommend just using the flat sheet of Homasote for the entire area and then letting the ballast form the raised area. Most yards don’t have high ballast anyway. You can carve in a ditch or two using the knife method described above to add some variance if desired.
I have always done the “cookie cutter” approach on curves rather than making cuts to bend or spline it. I cut Homasote out in the yard to keep the dust out there.
Bill
After having built 2 N scale layout on Homasote, I continue to raise the question of what spike holding power? Granted, I did not handlay track, instead I used cork over the homasote and plain old track nails - howver when it came time to dismantle those layouts, I was able to pull up and save every last bit of track and cork, using no more tool than my bare hands. It didn’t ‘hold’ anything. In fact when I put the track down I was often able to press the track nails in by hand. Compared to layout I built on plywood which required hammerign the track nails in. I still contend it is the wodden ties, glued to the homasote, that do the actual holding - homasote being preferred to plywood because the spikes slip in easily.
Now, if you are doign the “handly track by soldering rail to pc board ties” then it doesn’t much matter what the base and subroadbed materials are.
–Randy
I recently used homasote, and was completely satisfied with its performance in my damp old basement.
Once scenciked, as mentioned, you can’t tell it’s one large flat sheet.
When laying out the trackwork, I appreciated how easy it was to mark it up, set track centers, etc with a simple pencil. I found it took glue well, and was easily modifiable when needed.
I hated though, the mess it makes when cutting. A large yard piece is no big deal, but cutting roadbed strips, with beveled edges on the table saw (and I thinned mine on the table saw as well), was a horrific process - even outside. The dust is incredible, and I know why people pay the money to buy the homabed.
My circumstances have changed to where I simply can’t use homasote (due to a variety of reasons) for my next one, and I will use cork roadbed for hand laying. Opinions I’ve seen elsewhere, and I’ve been surprised to not see these expressed so far, is that cork works fine for hand laying, as in reality the glue and ballast work does a lot to hold the track work in place, a consideration that may be often overlooked.
I can let you know in a couple of months, but if you can’t wait, I’d love to see you try it (hint) and see your results.
My experience with handlaid track on cork was good initially. That is, until the cork dried out and crumbled. Then there was nothing to hold the ties together or in alignment - even though it still looked good from above. The areas where the rails placed some side force on the ties and/or spikes were the first areas of cork to shear beneath the glue surface. Depending on climate, I find cork to dry out to the point of crumbling in the neighborhood of 5-10 years.
If you prebend every rail to relieve side stress (recommended anyway) and don’t expect to your track to last beyond about 5 years, cork should be successful for that length of time.
The other point to watch with cork is to use very small spikes, or have very consistent cork. When pushing longer spikes into cork, the spike is easily pushed out of the desired alignment by the differences in hardness of the cork chunks/grain. This is where Homasote and similar products have the advantage over cork and wood - consistency of hardness from one spot to the next.
just my experiences
Fred W
That’s great information, Fred. Fortunately(?) in my case the next one will be temporary as well in a lot of ways. I do bend my rails for curves and use small spikes, so at least I have that going for me.
One quick question for you - was your track ballasted, or was the cork exposed. One thing I’m wondering, and maybe you can clear this up from your experience, is that a lot of the crumbling cork that I hear from people maybe open to the environment - non- ballasted, etc.
I’d love to know your thoughts and experience on this
Maybe it would benefit modelers to even use a wash of white glue and water on the cork before putting down ties to try and further “seal” the roadbed?
In my 3 different attempts to use cork roadbed (1st was handlaid track, 2nd was on my Dad’s layout with flex track, 3rd was on my O 3 rail layouts), all had cork crumbling within 10 years, sometimes even when it was “new” in the box. None of it ever got ballasted - my track that got ballasted was ballasted before I handlaid the rail on Homasote or wood roadbed.
I would guess based on those who have used cork roadbed successfully under flex track and my experience with wood boats, is that “sealing” the cork by ballasting will significantly retard the drying out/crumbling process of cork - but will not stop it totally. I do know that the Atlas “rubber” roadbed sold in lieu of cork in the '60s didn’t dry out the way cork did, and was promoted as a better product for that reason.
When my cork was fresh, I felt that it had a little too much “give” in comparison to other roadbeds I tried like Homasote, Celotex, Upson, and soft wood roadbeds. Then, as it dried it became fairly hard, and finally crumbled from underneath.
IMHO, the spike guidance and bending issue is something to consider when choosing your materials. By using short spikes in my more recent projects, I haven’t had the problem with harder spots guiding the spike where I didn’t want it, even when using redwood roadbed for display shelves. That was a real issue when I used cork as a roadbed - but my spikes were longer an