Anybody ever used a pulley system to suspend a 4X8 HO from the garage ceiling? I’ll be building one in a couple of weeks (hopefully) and would appreciate any advice. With winter around the corner, it is time to move my layout to get my car back in the garage and out of the elements. I thought I could just take it down and place it on the saw horses for use on the weekends and hang it 10-15 inches from the ceiling (it’s a flat layout) during the week. That would clear up parking space for the LeSabre. I hate not having the trains ready to run on a whim, but I also hate scraping ice every morning!
I never seen anything like that used or heard of anything like it, But It seems clever and possible, 4 sterdy ropes should hold a 4x8, aslong as pullies are attached to something strong. Did you plan on tieing the ropes to something to keep it up? Or how would you keep it up? And If I where you I would definetly Build a plexiglass wall around it just to prevent things from falling from that height.
I’m almost positive I saw exactly this type of thing in an a 60’s edidtion of MR or MRC. Try doing a search of the indexes and see what you find.
In addition to some type of barrier around the edge of the layout, I’d think about bringing all your underlayout wiring out to a few plugs. You can then unplug everything and store away the power packs without having to worry about pulling out the wires from constantly connecting and disconnecting them. Some kind of flexible plastic cover like they use on pool tables would also be a good idea since I imagine a lot of ceiling dwelling critters will want to take up residence on the layout. Still thinking out loud, you really need to have a system that lifts the entire layout evenly as one piece. If you try lifting it one corner at a time, you’ll end up putting too much stress on the corners and probably end up with some broken track or scenery.
I’ve seen a thread about it, don’t remember if it was here. It was succesful, though. I’ll do some looking…
Here is one, but I know I’ve seen it more recently.
I have a 5x9 work bench for the wood shop suspended from the ceiling in my garage. It goes up and down every day in the winter.
Some suggestions (all obvious maybe)
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Make sure the pullies are well connected to the ceiling joists. Simple screw ins are dangerous
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Make sure the ceiling joists can bear the extra weight. (Good reason here to build with foam.)
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Make sure the crank that raises the table has double and triple safety controls.
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Make sure that the train table has a little extra anti-twist support.
I have used my workbench for over 20 years without problem, so what you are suggestion sure can work, with EXTRA care. You don’t want it falling down on a car or a kid walking underneith.
I remember that issue. (MR) I remember the biggest problem was keeping it level as it went up and down and keeping it a one man operation. The type of cranks that pull boats onto their trailors could be used.
When I was a kid, my uncle did something like this for his kids layout.
They had a pool table It wasn’t much, a HO on modified figure 8, on a piece of 7/8’s ply, with a hole cut slightly off center in the middle of one side of the figure 8 so that the wood would clear the light bulb that illuminated every thing by about 6 in around. Over the pool table was a light weight cover, that doubled as a ping pong table, and then the train set would be lowered for use. The train cars themselves would be stored in little built in pockets in the center of the other half of the figure 8.
To use the pool table the layout would be raised, then the ping pong table surface would be unlocked and slid appart, at that point each half of the ping pong table surface was light enough for his 2 boy’s to lift together and set aside, then a fabric cover that protected the surface of the pool table would be folded up and set with both halfs of the ping pong surface.
I hate to scrape ice each morning as well, so I put a rolled up piece of carpet in the trunk, to roll out over the windshield to protect it, once loose I would peel it off, and it would pull off and most of the ice just pops free, the type of carpet with heavy duty rubb
A couple of comments on ceiling-suspended layouts-or anything!
- The attachment points for the pulleys must be strong enough to take the maximum anticipated suspended load. (Since you are planning to use sawhorses, your suspended load will only consist of the layout, whatever tools you leave on it and the vertical part of the suspender cables.)
- The structure to be suspended must be stiff enough to accept the stress of being lifted.
- The amount of force needed to raise the layout can be reduced by the use of counterweights. The clever trick is to counterweight each lift point separately, with a box to which additional weight can be added as scenery and such get added to the layout. (This can reduce the lift energy from boat winch to venetian-blind cord.) The counterweights should be connected to the layout with separate cables, since the main hoist cable arrangement doesn’t lend itself to counterweighting.
- The best way I have found to lift a rectangular load involves a cable at (or near) each corner and a rig that allows all four cables to be pulled an equal distance all at the same time. Each cable passes over a pulley with a flexible mounting, the corner cables are connected to each other across the short length of the rectangle, and the main hoist cable is connected to the centers of the lift cable connectors. A pulley on the centerline just outside the rectangle reverses the hoist cable direction, so pulling on it (parallel to the ceiling and centered on the rectangle) pulls all four hoist cables inward. The main hoist cable can be led over a fixed pulley to a cleat screwed into a stud in the wall.
Hope this helps,
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
First, I’d strongly suggest you look at adding a bit of size (especially in width) if you plan this layout in HO. Even an extra foot will give you more room for more reliable curves, more scenery, etc. 5X9 or 5X10 are even better sizes to consider and they won’t add that much weight. Yes, you will need to cut some plywood, or have the lumberyard do it, but it’s not that difficult and you won’t regret it. And if you build with some other method than just a flat plywood top, you won’t even have to deal with that.
On the topic of suspending the layout, John Armstrong published a neat (if very ambitious) 4X8 N scale design, the “Carlsbad, East Portal, and Zenith”. This was in Model Railroader, April 1982 , also published in 18 Tailor-Made Model Railroad Track Plans, also published in The Classic Layout Designs of John Armstrong . (References from our host’s index of magazines). This article had some basic discussion of suspension systems.
Another suspended layout (much larger), was the Midland Valley covered in Model Railroader, June 1977 . That one was lifted with a motor. John Arsmtrong also wrote about suspended layouts in his book John Armstrong on Creative Layout Design . In that book, he noted the importance of counterweights that allow balancing weight to be added over time to make it easier to raise and lower the layout. These could be concrete blocks or something similar.
One of the keys (if you want to
What is above the Garage? If it is attic space, you could use thin cables that would go up through tiny holes in the ceiling to a single rod in the attic much like what is above your garage door. You can then wind it up manually or use an old dryer motor and bike chain to power it. Use a reostate to control the speed.
This is a design problem I need to work out myself. Until the basement becomes available (17’x55’) the only space I have is the TV room. I’ve convinced the Wife that I can hang a 12x14 layout from the ceiling via pulleys, counterweights, and a crank. My brother is a mechanical engineer so he’ll be a big plus. Nevertheless the benchwork construction will need to be very light and rigid. I’m thinking an aluminum structure of some sort.
Byron, That looks like a great turnkey solution! I could suspend that from some kendorf in the ceiling!
You are going to place a load directly onto that house structure. If it is just a roof/attic above the garage, it becomes a question of how to carry at least 4 points of stress on the structural frames safely year after year.
The frames that carry the load are not going to be able to carry the same “Snow load” or other load on the roof above such as a man walking on it. You are going to be asking the building to carry a load sorta “Suspended” in the belly between the 4 walls and it aint going to be a simple ceiling fan.
I myself will add on to the building first before asking it to carry any extra loading on the ceiling. If it was my garage, the car stays outside. Period. And the layout will be built normally on the concrete slab floor.
I cannot stress enough the need to overbuild extra beams or other additional points of carriage above the structure to spread the load of the suspended object across as MANY of the framing as you possibly can.
And finally but not last, you need to demonstrate to yourself, your family the fail safe of such a hang. Something will cause it to fall one day and you dont want a child or something UNDER it. NO Sir.
I see Elevators the same way… they are perfectly GOOD until the LAST DROP.
Back in the 70’s I hung a 9 x 14 layout on hangers made from 3/4 galvanized pipe to raise over the car in a garage. The pipe was bent into a more or less u shape with roughly 4 ft on the down side and the 9 ft between the down sides. These were connected to a cable which was cranked up with a boat winch. The garage had two large beams acroos the cieling as this was a trilevel house with bedroom above garage. The pipe was hinged to these beams and everything was very stable. When the layout was lowered it was just about touching the garage door and when cranked up it just about touched the rear wall. In a quest for layout room anything is possible. GO FOR IT!
Union Pacific Port Doom Branch
Cliffsrr
I’m actually thinking of using telecommunications ladder-tray or cable-tray for my benchwork.
Stuff like this:
You might consider using steel stud material. It is a lot lighter than wood, a lot less expensive than aluminum (priced any lately?) and can be rendered sufficiently rigid by using extra-depth main members and adding lots of diagonal bracing and extra screwing flanges (which can be bent into the ends of girders where they meet rim joists.) For extra strength, machine screws and nuts (or rivets) can be substituted for the small sheet metal screws usually used for steel stud assembly.
I have built all of my benchwork with stud steel, and the two table-like pieces would require only minimum modification to render them suitable for hoisting. Even with a lot of subgrade, roadbed and track in place I can easily lift one end of a 5 x 12 table with one hand (or could until I tied it to the wall.)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Steel has come to mind but:
What about the weight?
Although aluminum is pricey I may be able to get some of the “cable tray” components second hand…
Another issue is the height of the benchwork. When I raise it to the ceiling the family can’t feel like a bunch of Hobbitses. So I figure maximum vertical height of the layout needs to be 18". I’ll probably end up finishing the bottom of it including some lights for the room.
The configuration I’m thinking of is a 12x14 around the room, 24" - 27" depth shelf. With a penninsula up the middle (longway). A “closed” “E” if you will…
I’m thinking of attaching some sort of angled stanchions at points on the walls where when the layout is lowered it an actually rest on them providing stability for operations…
The nice thing will be the ability to raise the layout to work underneath it…
If wanted a steel stud frame could be constructed to look like a lowered ceiling when up in its storage position. Thin sheet rock on the bottom of the support frame with some trim, a little paint. The whole thing could vanish into the ceiling. If lucky to have a closet very close you could hide the winch and cables in the closet with only the support cables coming down thru the ceiling. With the trim on the underside of the support frame to hide the hole when you raise the layout.
The cables can be run with stops, then cut once the height from the floor is decided upon. That way all the cables already have the same stopping point before the layout is supported. Folding frames could be used to stabilize the layout when down at operating level. But folded up and stored in a closet or under a couch when not in use. As a child I know a person that had a race car track that let down from the ceiling to rest upon a dinning table to support it while playing. The frame work was plywood with 2x4’s running from cable to cable for support. Have you thought about using PVC. A simple framework using PVC will be both lite and stable. I also think steel studs would be better. Once either are built they will be very stable and strong.
Hi Chuck. I’m thinking of doing the same thing, in HO scale. Please post a picture of your rigging. Thanks.