I’m looking into buying supplies so I can make a storeable 4’x8’ layout. It will have to be stored vertically behind my daybed for the time being, as there is no space in my household to build a more permanent layout. My original plan was going to be a 4’x8’ foam sheet with wooden bracing underneath for strength and light weight, as plywood is too heavy.
Someone then told me about this “luane” (sp?) stuff. They pronounced it ‘loo-AHN.’ It’s supposedly a composite that’s lighter than plywood and very stiff. She said it can be found at home improvement stores like Home Depot. Has anyone heard of luane or had any experience with it?
Luan is a high grade plywood, usually used for cabinets and furniture construction…but also layouts.
If you want to use foam, why not construct a 4’ x 8’ frame with 1" x 3" to support the foam? There have been several layout articles in Model Railroader using this type of construction.
I’d vote for 2" foam with a lightweight frame too.
Would it be possible to raise it to the ceiling rather than stand it on edge. Have some good legs to put it on when it’s down, hanging wouldn’t be a good table to work on. Perfectly level lifting wouldn’t be necessary. Just a thought.
Yes luan is plywood and it comes in different grades. The stuff I’m familiar with is 1/4" floor underlayment. Usually has one good side and has no voids. I have used it for fascia and it was nice to work with, Just thin plywood is all, and reasonably priced.
I wouldn’t call luan “high grade” plywood. It’s actually cheap ply. It’s typically 3 ply with the top being a veneer layer. The core is usually balsa or a similar soft tropical wood. It’s good for craft projects or dust panels in furniture. You get it in 1/8" or 1/4" thickness. It’s not good for structural use. The best ply for that would be any type of birch ply (aircraft or marine grade).
Just went down to the Home Depot. They didn’t have any 4’x8’ lauan (as they spell it) in stock. The craft store (for foamboard) was closed; I’ll check them out tommorow. Most of the plywood the Depot had in stock was pretty heavy except for poplar, which makes up for its lighter weight in price.
Do you know which issues might have articles on that?
Someone else mentioned how I was going to store it. I may not have explained it correctly: It will be stored standing on its side (the 8ft side). Due to the small amount of space between the backboard of the daybed and the wall, that will limit my scenery options severely. For now at least I just want a place to run my trains.
The luan, in my other hobby, will have a mahogany veneer on one side. I usually use it for drawer bottoms and I see it used a lot as the backing of furniture which only purpose is to keep the carcase square (with the added benefit of keeping the dust out of the back).
But why for a layout? First, it is usually only found in relative thin stock-- a 1/4" would be thick for luan. Second, you are paying for veneer that I can’t see a purpose for-- you’ll cover the veneer. Third, I am guessing it was suggested to insure you had a good smooth surface to work upon; but luan is not the only surfaced plywood.
With that said, I’m working on a shelf layout and using 1/4" ply over a 1x2 frame, but my shelves are only 12" deep. For a 4 by 8 layout, I would go for thicker stock for the simple reason that I would be crawling around on that deep a layout and I could foresee a knee possibly punching through between the underbracing. For my own ;layout, if luan was given me, I would have used instead.
But for a fascia around the layout-- that might be kind of nice.
As someone has pointed out in one of the posts, luan plywood usually is available in 1/4" thickness which is used for underlayment under vinyl flooring in construction. 1/2" luan plywood can be special ordered at some lumber yards but probably not as a single-sheet order.
I’d suggest you use 1/2" Arauco brand pine plywood which has 5 plies, is A-C grade and is relatively flat. My local Lowes recently started carrying this plywood in both 1/2" and 3/4" thicknesses in 4’ x 8’ sheets. The 3/4" thickness has 7 plies. The Lowes item number for the 1/2" is #170770 and it sells for $23.44/ sheet as of 10 days ago. To get a good flat sheet, you may have to go down a few sheets from the top of the pile in the store. I’ve not yet worked with this plywood but I intend to use it to support a layer of 2" blue foam on my new N scale layout. It’ll add some weight to your layout, but it will provide strength to the table top vs. using only the 2" foam layer supported directly on the 1 x frame. There was a discussion of plywoods in a recent thread in this forum. I believe the title of the thread was “1/2” or 3/4" Plywood ?.."
The key here is the quality of the plywood - not the thickness. Most plywood will warp over time if not attached to a strong frame - like 2x4’s in household construction. Higher quality plywood is made to not warp in frameless construction such as cabinets.
The 1/4" plywood with a luan skin is also a more stable sheet good to be used in places where warping cannot be tolerated. It has minimal structural strength but will not warp on its own if reasonably supported.
Build the frame on a level surface. Be sure to glue the 1x2 framing together. Glue the plywood to the frame. Glue the foam board to the plywood. Be sure to do all these steps in the same session before any of the glue has had time to fully cure and harden.
Make sure the plywood is fully adhered to the foam board. That is, a full surface coating between the two surfaces - not just a few wiggles of glue. You can get a small can of flooring mastics that is safe for foam. A mastic that is “water cleanup” is usually safe for foam. Use a notched trowel or putty knife to spread the mastic evenly over all the surface of the plywood. You can buy plastic notched putty knife and throw it away once done.
Join the plywood and the foam together on a level surface; weight it down evenly and allow to dry overnight.
Use 1/8" masonite or 1/4" plywood for a 3 3/4" fascia all around the layout. Make sure this fascia is also fully glued to the frame. This will add additional structural strength to resist warping and racking.
Some people (I’m not one of them) just use those interior doors for the surface of their layout. They are flat, stiff, and relatively light. You can even put a hinge on the wall side if you want to just tip it up for storage like a Murphy bed.
Spent 20 years on construction sites, once set an 8 inch by 22 inch by 22 foot long laminated beam, 14 feet above grade, with one other guy, and once set a 4 inch by 16 inch by 16 foot garage door header all by myself.
When our partially assembled layout had to move from one room to another, 4x8 open frame, roadbed and track only, it took every bit of strength I had and I almost dropped it.
My personal favorite plywood is called Baltic Birch Plywood:
It is all birch and there are no voids. It typically comes in 5’ X 5’ sheets, in thicknesses from 1/8 inch and up. It is a joy to work with; it is very precise, and it really isn’t too expensive. Most hardwood lumber dealers will get it for you and some dealers keep it in stock (you won’t find it at Home Depot).
I’ll not include my opinion of Luan (I have nothing good to say about it).
Good thought. If you go by Fred’s actual experience and do something shorter than 8 feet, then a slab door cannot be beat. You can’t even buy the materials for the cost of a slab door.
If you can hang it from a wall as suggested, here is a neat idea:
Buy a pre-hung interior slab door. Throw away the outer casing and attach the interior frame to the wall - sideways. All you need are legs and now you have a layout already hinged and framed by molding when folded (you would need to add some molding to the “side” where the door bottom would have been)
Okay, paying closer attention to your parameters—must be stored vertically, and that you have ruled out traditional thickness of plywood due to the weight: May I suggest:
A 5 ½’ by 3 ½’ N-Scale layout can do more than a 4’ by 8’ in HO, so looking at a really good HO plan in that size and shrinking to fit would be my start, but probably not my choice…
The best options that come to my mind would probably be a shelf layout, modular layout, or something like a “hidden” layout built, say, into a window-seat with a removable top.
In other words, think outside of the 4’ by 8’ box. An L shape shelf layout is how I went for much the same reasons as you are facing. I like yards and local freight type operations so I have no loop as I do not need a train to be able to circle.
It seems to me you are trying to get the most railroad you can with very limited space; but those 4’ by 8’ designs tend to waste space, whereas linear layouts that do not require tight turns in every corner and/or at each end, plus to run such a railroad, you must allow access to at least three of the fours sides—it is like trying to put a pool table in a bedroom.
My “L” shaped shelf layout has a mainline track that terminates at each of the two ends. If I decided to add length, I may. If I decide I want a loop, I can construct a single track cartridge to latch in place to link the ends with a reciprocal “L.”
At any rate… a foam and ¼” luan with a 1 by 2 (or beefier) frame (as others have advised) certainly sounds like the construction method for you.
ArtOfRuin, I have advocated this before but I will do it again since I suspect that you joined the forum since my last advocacy.
To keep from having a store-away layout that takes two men and a boy to manhandle into and out of position suspend your (very firmly supported) four-by in an A-Frame system. Your A-Frame supports don’t need to be particlularly deep and all you will need is a wall space about eight and a half feet long to suspend it; mount this turkey on casters and one person can take it up and down with ease and it can, of course, be wheeled to anywhere you want it to go.
Appreciate any comments on my layout design which I am just now starting construction on by doing painting of the room. Preparing to start benchwork shortly is as follows:
Around room shelf design with 4 - 2’X4’ modules 8’, & 9’ long, fastened to wall on back with legs on front. Shelf is box frames for easy moving made of 1" X 4"s, with 1X4 cross members 12" on center. 3/8" plywood base, with homasote on top of plywood. Cookie cut the single up and over grade on the homasote Raise up the homasote above the plywood. Spike track direct to homasote. On one side of the layout a 36" lift out-up bridge to enter the layout. Room is dry, moisture not an issue. I build a homasote layout 22 years ago with good results.
Plan to glue and screw the box frame together screw plywood to frame and glue/screw homsote to plywood.
Do you feel strongly that should scrap homasote in favor of 1" foam with cork roadbed?
When building my current layout I was looking for a cheaper alternative to the foam roadbed I used last time and with none of the drawbacks associated with cork (it dries out and gets hard and brittle as well as acting like a noise amplifier when it gets that way) and less mess and instability then homosote. As I was walking through the local home improvement store I spotted something that might work, and even better, it was out of season so it was on sale!
I use a foam base with my roadbed and track secured by the latex caulk. For roadbed I use rope caulking. It comes in a roll about 15’ long, and it’s perfect width for HO scale track right out of the box. Since I model N, I just tear it along the already formed centerline and I get about 30’ of roadbed per box with no waste. The advantages are that it never dries out, so it’s always soft and pliable (absorbs sound!), it can easily be molded to any curve radius you want, it’s easy to cut with just a xacto knife to form turnout pads, crossovers and such, or you can use a wallpaper roller on it to flatten it and make trasitions in rail heights or lower passing sidings in just a few seconds. As if that isn’t enough, the latex caulk holds well to it, but you can still slip a putty knife in there and take up the rails without damage if you need (Spread the caulk very thin with a putty knife when you lay it down and then lay the tracks and use some canned goods laid lenthwise along the tracks to hold it while it sets up). If you get it in the off season like me you can often find it for a buck or two a box. It comes in gray and brown that I’ve seen, though other brands may come in other colors.
I appreciate all of your advice on the subject. The shelf-layout idea sounds interesting, but I am extremely space-limited right now. I may try to reduce the size from 4’x8’ to something smaller like 4’x’6 or 3’x6’ as someone suggested. If I didn’t already have so much invested in HO scale, I would have considered a switch to N scale.
