Has the Computer Made Us Lazy ?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

This thought crossed my mind recently, and being an “old school” modeler, I thought I’d put it out there …

The internet is littered with forums and blogs of every conceivable topic there is. For the most part, they consist of the most basic questions imaginable. How on earth did we even manage to build ANYthing before computers ?

Us “old schoolers” didn’t have a computer to run to every time we hit a road block. Back in the day, we BUILT a lot more than people today for the most part. If it wasn’t made, we built it ourself. We HAD to figure out how to either do it ourself, have a buddy help out, or hope there was something in a magazine.

Are people today just lazy ? Is it easier to post a simple question on a forum and sit back and wait for somebody to instruct us how to do / fix it ? Many questions I see posted on forums (not just here, and model trains) could be easily answered if the poster just went ahead and tried it. You learn more that way than just following somebody else’s thoughts.

I never owned a computer prior to 1999, and before that, I built a few layouts - complete with scenery, a signal system and even my first DCC control. How on earth did I ever do that without having the world at my finger-tips to answer all the questions I had ?

I think that the information overload available online sometimes instills a fear in people to the point they are almost afraid to “try” something for fear of doing it “wrong”. I think the “old timers” in the hobby are so much more knowledgable because we did it / tried it / screwed it up and learned first hand all our experience. Big difference between book smart and street smart.

Just thinking out loud …

Mark.

2

“Made” us lazy?

I’m sure that individual laziness is just the same now as 100 years ago. Given a chance, some people will be and some won’t. The computer has given us many more ways to be lazy and many more to be energetic.

Ya picks and ya chooses.

I do find it amusing that so many people come to this forum and ask a question that I answer by doing a simple google search. I think that’s more a lack of intelligence than laziness, though.

Ed

3

Laziness perhaps but economics plays a part too. Why not ask in a forum its cheaper that ruining a $250 loco for example.

Besides I learned from Dale Carnagie that you can wait until you learn by experience or you can learn from the experience of others.

I do agree that a Google search does answer many a question though.

4

The reason that society has progressed so far is that each generation doesn’t have to relearn the lessons of the last. They are free to move forward. Sharing what we know is the road to the future.

5

Some are just clueless. They have no idea they can search. Very little is Ungoogleable.

Some are lazy and want others to do the searching for them.

Some lack patience in searching.

Rich

6

Indeed and many of us was graduates of school of hard lessons and we learned what can and can not be done-we had too…We had few books,no computer,some fool hardy advice from “expert wanna bes” and in some cases breaking new ground with high hopes and fingers crossed and some times we just ended up falling flat on our faces.

Fast forward to today…The lessons learn is still just as good as they was years ago-nothing changed.

7

Computers speed up access to knowledge. Books did the same thing at one time and that is why we have libraries. We now have so much more than a library in our homes.

I have an Ford F-350P/U with a 7.3 Litre Diesel. I hate working on cars and trucks. However I can go on You-tube, watch a short video on how to change a cam sensor or a temperature sensor or an ABS sensor and have it changed in minutes for the cost of the part. Changing sensors is no more difficult than changing a lightbulb but Ford would take $500.00 out of my pocket to do so every time.

I have saved thousands and thousands of dollars because “I have been too lazy and gone to the computer to ask or find out how to do something”.

There are two kinds of people in this world. People that make things happen and People that let things happen. It is my opinion that people that go to the computer to seek knowledge are ones that make things happen by first learning.

As far as asking on the forum instead of using Google, well some of us are not as proficient as others and just don’t think to do that, and to many of us this technology is still a new way to do things. Those that have had the oppourtunity to use computerized technology through their school and/or working life have a distinct advantage over those of us that have just used it recreationally. Using Google also removes any social interaction or expansion on the topic we may get by asking on the forum. So if you don’t want that exchange between you and another person why come to the forum. I think coming on the forum and telling someone to Google something is in most instances just rude. If you can’t do better than that, why are you here. If the same questions didn’t keep getting asked over and over again there would be no forum.[:)]

8

I would not say lack of intelligence, but lack of computer skils. I have known a number of smart folks who have trouble findng the ON switch for their computer.

9

Here is my take on the question that Mark has posed.

Before the arrival of personal computers and Google, most people didn’t even know about the Internet.

Yet, it was the Internet that eventually killed the local hobby shop.

Too bad, because it was the local hobby shop that got most modelers educated about the hobby.

I got my first personal computer in 1995, and I started into HO scale in 2004. I had stumbled into a LHS early in 2004, and the owner and his sidekick got me hooked. I went back to them for everything, and I asked them every question that I could think of. I didn’t even consider the computer, or the Internet, or forums, for questions and answers.

Over the span of 6 years (2004-2009), I relied on my three LHS for everything, but they all closed shop in 2010. For the first time, in 2010, I purchased stuff on the Internet, and only then did I really start to rely on these forums for help and advice.

I suspect that many on this forum have had similar experience, at least us relative newbies. Kits, scratch building, and word of mouth, all preceded our entry into the hobby and you old timers had to fend for yourselves.

I will add one more thought. The Internet, forums, and the like, are filled with misinformation. When I need help nowadays, I try to figure it out for myself first, then I turn to specialty forums like two of the Yahoo Groups (Wiring for DCC and NCE-DCC) that I know I can rely on. When I turn to this forum for help, I am very selective in who I listen to.

Rich

10

No the internet has not made anybody lazy, if I recall correctly every time a new member shows up here they’re told that if they have questions to ask. If you don’t want to answer, let someone else do it. On top of that a search on google is far more trouble than it looks trust me I’ve hunted and hunted for info using vague, specific, and otherwise different inquiries.

Not everybody has the freetime of retirees, so they may have to dro a question so they can return to it later. Well, off to work with me, day 4 of 5 and only 16 more hours to go before 2 days off.

11

Hey, not all retirees have a lot of free time. I have to get up at 6 AM to shave and shower, so I can be at the golf course by 7 AM. I don’t finish my round until about 11 AM, and then I have to sit down and order lunch and a couple of beers. Then, I go to the range and hit golf balls till 1 PM, race home to take a nap and then ask the wifey, what’s for dinner. Then, I have to set aside time to watch the Military Channel to see if the Germans won the war. By now, it is 10 PM, and I have to watch the news, then pour a Glenlivet and a dish out a bowl of cashews. Next thing you know, it is time for bed. Very little free time, youngster!

Rich

12

I agree. I research and learn on the internet, not just model railroading but on every major purchase I make. Not only learning to make my own repairs, but also what products are good and which are lemons.

Biggest problem on the internet is learning how to phrase your search so you don’t get a lot of garbage and/or commercial hits. Some topics, I still haven’t found a way.

2nd biggest problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. I find using multiple sources and critical reading to be essential. It also helps where possible to check a site on something you already know.

As for asking on this forum, go ahead. As long as your subject line is clear, everyone else can read them or skip them easily.

Enjoy

Paul

13

I think lack of being educated in computers would be a better way of putting it.

Being intelligent doesn’t mean you’re educated and being educated doesn’t make you intelligent.

I got into flying R/C airplanes because of the local hobby shop. I was in buying train stuff when I was about ten and the new owner had planes hanging from the ceiling and I was hooked. I am sure I would have missed out on flying planes if not for the LHS.

As far as misinformation on the internet! My wife is a Vet and the people that have brought their sick and near to death animals in to her because they tried a cure they saw on the internet. It makes you shake your head. Also the conterfit medications that people would buy online to save a visit to the Vet.[:(!]

14

All interesting thoughts - thanks guys.

I guess it’s all relative. Having the bulk of my learning curve in the hobby happen through the 70’s, things were a lot simpler then. Electronics were MUCH simpler then. DCC was still wishful thinking and what we were using was just plain common sense wiring.

The comment about fixing the truck via a YouTube video was also a good example of technology. I could practically tear the engine down in my 67 Ford and put it back together in a day just based on common sense and a bit of help from the local shop. Two people could stand beside the engine IN the engine compartment ! There’s no way I would even attempt that in my new vehicle without some specific guidance.

Maybe I was just having a whistful moment of the “good old days” when things seemed to be so much simpler. Many is the time I feel to have a ball and chain attached to this glowing monitor who sources all the information known to man and wish it never came into existence. Too much knowledge can at times almost be as detrimental as not enough.

Mark.

15

Having been modeling for almost 50 years, I’ve done it with all sorts of levels of technology. One of my first truly scratchbuilt buildings was made with lap siding made from IBM cards I have done reseach through libraries and books. The difference between then and now is the speed and the range of material to which you have access. I live in Nebraksa, I have done research at the Hagley Library in Delaware in person. I was able to spend a couple hours there while visiting family near Philadelphia one vacation. Now I can cruise their digital library and see more info faster than before.

It still takes me a lot of time to do research, but that has been cut from years to find out info to matters of months or weeks or less.

Since I have done so much research, I personally have no problem telling people to Google stuff. In many cases people can ask a question and I can find an answer on the internet in 10-15 minutes. If they had just looked for it themselves they would have had the answer more quickly. More importantly they would have learned far more than me just telling them the answer. When I go looking for something (where were the Reading Railroad’s freight yards in Wilmington, DE?) I find that I discover a dozen useful things I wasn’t searching for on the way to the one thing I was. That is the beauty of searching yourself. If I ask a question and you answer it (the yards were east /south of the PRR viaduct), all I know is that fact. If I search for them myself I can find more information(the lead looks like it breaks out to the north/east, it looks like the Delaware River Extension breaks off the same place, it looks like the other end of the yard was stub ended).

16

Back when I was growing up I read about the hobby in my local library. They had back issues of Model Railroader books like scenery, track plans, and etc. I also picked up a lot of books on railroads. I read about the CB&Q, CNW, Chessie System, Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, Amtrak, Southern Pacific, New York Central, and Union Pacific.

When the family had a computer back in 1999, we had no internet until 2004.

The only laziness that I’m guilty to is trying to model the east coast of the United States. When I’m living in Arizona desert and only railroad that comes here is the Union Pacific on the old Southern Pacific lines.

17

Has the Computer Made Us Lazy ?

Yes!

18

The computer has allowed us to be more efficient. Whether or not you choose to be lazy is entirely up to you.

19

I’ll take another angle…

Lazy? Maybe not. I think it’s unreasonable expectations that it provides.

The work it takes to build a great model can sometimes be conveyed, but the hands on experience can’t. Everything should be free or cost next to nothing! Nah, real world is a little more complex. Everything I buy will be perfect, because what I see on the internet is always perfect! Not until they come up with PhotoshopX-Files, that corrects and edits real-world objects with the click of a mouse.

You see the end state of a project, whether it’s a kit, a layout, or a new product and think, that must’ve been easy. Webcams do sometimes let you see intermediate steps, but who wants to watch paint dry?

We should be kinda careful with that “L” word. Some folks say that model railroading is a lazy hobby in general. True, not a lot of physical exertion, but it does test the mind and the nerves. I also think everyone brings their own sense of urgency and interest in the hobby. There’s no need for hard-core, militant, all-in model railroaders. This is no Ironman or survival show…thank goodness

20

If they can figure out how to join this forum, I think they already are aware a google search is possible.

This kinda implies that some people make up a question just to have an on-line social interaction. I’ll not comment on their motives. But I think it would be better to do a search and THEN come onto the forum for further development–the expansion mentioned in the above quote.

I don’t think I’ve ever done that. But I have several times done the very search they could have done; and, upon finding their desired information, suggested that they search with the terms that I used. I am illustrating for those people just how easy it is to do.

Other than that, sometimes I know the info is unavailable online. Then I answer the question. For example, someone asked the length and wheelbase of a Great Northern S-2. I’ve got that info, and I shared it. Funny thing, though. It’s been several years, and I still haven’t received a “Thank you”. Guess he’s been too busy having other social interactions.

When THAT rudeness happens, I tend to hold off on sharing for awhile. Hey, I don’t HAVE to help you out.

[quote]

If the same questions didn’t keep getting asked over and over again there would be no forum.