I was wondering what the maximum distance cows and pigs would be shipped in a stock car? Would you see ATSF stock cars up in Alberta picking up cattle and taking them to the southern U.S. for instance? Would they have to be let out for food and water every so often? What U.S. stock cars might have been seen in western Canada in the 1950s if any. I want to build up a stockcar fleet in my C.P. yard hopefully using some U.S. railroads Thanks for any info.
-Brent
Hi Brent
Can only speak for southern Alberta [Milk River to be exact] - most stock cars were CP, with the odd CN, but MoPac and GN were occasionally seen as well - in all cases, the cars seen were enroute S into Montana, or N to Lethbridge. This was the case 1948 - 1953. Don’t know about ‘rest stops’. Trains we saw these on were mixed freight - no passenger equipment - other equipment was normally flat, tank, and the odd gon, with a couple boxcars - if these were in the consist they were LCL. I’m adding stock cars to my consist, but will toss in a couple NAR units - we never saw them close to the border, but they had a number of them in service. No one could fault you for adding them, and in roads you like - best wishes, and have fun.
Bob
I am sure you can have a few oddball cars ( like Rock Island,Mopac, etc) up there but I am sure the majority would be home road.or other Canadian roads. I am not sure just how far a stock car could go. I assume that most would be return to home road by reverse routing, but you never know. During a stock rush if I were an agent at a depot and I knew there were stock cars near by and I needed one I woul beg borrow and or steal to get it.
As for rest stops it was every 36 hours to be let out of the cars to eat,drink and exerscise.I heard somewhere ( I think on the forum here) that Stock was one of the lowest paying freight,but one of the ones that could cost you a fortune if anything went wrong enroute.
Now heres a question I have now. Would it be a bigger pain to ship cows and hogs over the border than what its worth?That might be something that would curtail what your planning but hey this is model railroading, Not real life right.
“Hog’s law” IIRC was 12 hours not 36, stock also needed the addition in most case of drovers caboose to accompany the stock to its destination and help with the loading -unloading at the various stops along the way. Travelling accross the border might not hve been the best way to route it because of the various fee and duty encountered making it cost innefective.internation travel might be do-able depending on your time frame but youd need to research a bit more.
Stock was one of the more local freight, usually travelling less than most freight because of the extensive set of rule governing its routing.
High-value stock such as race horses travelled in express cars. They looked like passenger baggage cars (which they were) but had collapsible, individual pens so they weren’t limited to that function. In fact, the SP called theirs “horse cars.”
Edit/addition – these cars would travel in passenger trains
Mark
Actually hog law is for the crew. We go on the law at 12 hours ( older days was 16 then 14 and finally 12) Stock was 36 if it had been 12 they never would have made it lol.
years ago (late 60’s) when i worked on the big four (nyc) at brooklyn yard in e st louis we had a westbound train coming with several cars of stock on the head end. some self appointed important type in the service bureau called me and said to make sure the stock was delivered immediately to national stock yards in e st louis for feed water and rest because the time was almost up. well, he didn’t know what he was talking about since it was saturday morning and the stock yards did not receive any loads on saturday. when the train arrived it turned out that the stock amounted to about half a dozen critters in each converted box car with heavy planks spaced about 8 inches apart across the doorways. the cars had large water tanks and feed bunks in them along with a bunch of straw bedding and a couple of cow boy attendants bunking in the end of the car. one of those guys climbed out of the car and bummed a smoke off me. said he couldn’t smoke in the car with all that dry straw and he had been having a nicotine fit since they left indianapolis. the waybills were endorsed, “feed,water,room for rest in car. 36 hour law does not apply.” they were show cattle on their way to the san francisco live stock show at the cow palace. we cut the cars off the head end upon arrival and delivered them straight to the “Q” where they were holding an outbound train for these loads those cows were traveling in style, better than some of the passenger trains i deadheaded on. hope they won some blue ribbons. the few regular stock moves i saw later on were usually feeder cattle going east in multiple car shipments to some big farm in ohio. there was always an extra empty car or two coupled to the rear of the loads with the pin lifter wired down, tagging along in case one of the loads was bad ordered and the load had to be transfered. otherwise, where would you find an empty stock car sitting around if you needed one?
grizlump
For cattle, and I believe sheep, it was 24 hours between feeding/rest stops, and 28 or 36 hours for hogs IF there was sufficient room in the stock car for the hogs to lay down. Hogs would also be hosed down at intervals that I don’t recall, while in transit.
Stock cars would usually be placed near the front of the train to reduce the effects of slack action on the stock cars, avoiding possible injuries to the animals, while also making it easier to handle the feeding/rest stops.
If modeling loaded stock cars, you will want to model them with the animals facing across the cars, not facing forwards. I have had cattle truck drivers tell me that the animals will position themselves this way so that they can lean on each other while the vehicle is in motion, it is much less stressful than balancing facing forwards, and that they would also load the same way in rail cars.
Doug
Let’s back up a second, because it depends on your era. Stock trains were started at a time refrigeration was either not available or only just getting developed. In the 1870’s-1880’s Texas cattlemen drove cattle on great drives to the nearest railroad (like the ATSF in Dodge City, Kansas) with the cattle often being taken by train to Chicago. As the west grew and refrigeration became more common, it made more sense to bring the cattle shorter distances, to regional packing cities like Kansas City, Omaha NE, South St.Paul MN (which once had the world’s largest stockyard complex) etc. and slaughter and dress the beef there and then ship the frozen meat to where it needed to go (often to the east). Although stock trains remained important into the 20th century, after WW2 they became less common, with I believe the last solid stock trains running in maybe the early 1970’s.
I can’t think of a situation where stock would move that far - from western Canada to the US south. Cattle or pigs would normally be in transit to the nearest meat packing center, although I guess there some situations in the west where stock cars were used to move stock from one grazing area to another during the year. If cattle were coming into the US from western Canada, they’d be more likely to end up at a packing plant nearer to western Canada. But I’d assume there would be packing plants in Canada - somebody had to be making that back bacon,
“I can’t think of a situation where stock would move that far - from western Canada to the US south.”
I can. Show cattle and other livestock. Usually shipped special, but my grandfather ran into a couple of cattlemen that shipped bulk (more than one car) via standard means rather than by modified box car. The cattle were put into standard cattle cars with a caboose (I assume drover he didn’t specify) and the rest of the train tacked on after. The cattle cars were owned by the cattlemen and had doors at either end so that problems with the cattle could be attended to underway rather than at stops. Rare I admit, but the show circut was big money. Not so much anymore. 
My grandfathers car was usually an 50’ double door wooden autoboxcar with the lower two rows of side planks removed. Inside two lofts were constructed. On one side a 200 gallon tank was placed with room left over for two rows of double stacked bails, and the tools of the trade. One never went anywhere on the road without a 3 prong pitchfork, good for railroad bums and ornery railroad bulls alike as well as being useful for other more practical things like mucking out the stalls. Feed and hay were kept in a fenced off enclosures at the end of the car. On the opposite side loft was where Grandpa and two other hired men slept. This side was usually six to eight inches lower so that they could either set up a cot or use hay bails for bedding, one man after WWII used a hammock, that he kept from his time in the Pacific. Grandpa prefered using the hay as it allowed for more food stowage for the cattle. Two or three coolers would be stored up there and they could eat on the road.
Most of the time they were shipped at the head of the train, once they were shipped at the rear, and Grandpa lost a calf in uteru(sp) when the cow fell. That was the las
Fascinating story, Flynn. I’m curious as to what time period this occurred as well as how your grandfather’s railroad car was lettered. Got photos you can share?
Mark
Hey Mark,
Between 1935 and 1955. 1955 was the last year that he could get a 50’ in good repair. Mom said the year before he turned away 10 cars before he found one that had a good roof and floor. The following year he couldn’t get an outside braced box car in good repair. Considering that it was inhabited for 3 months my guess is that good repair meant practically weather tight.
Photos. I have seen them, but after my grandfather died where the photos went I don’t know. How the car was fitted was from some notes he left for a hired man, that somehow survived, and from the memories of my mom and uncle. I have one photo but can’t find it sinced I got married. I am hoping it didn’t end up in a book that got sold.