Have you Eliminated the frog "drop" in Atlas Turnouts?

HI!

Most of us are aware that there is a dropoff at the frog of Atlas HO turnouts (code 100), which under certain conditions can cause a derailment and subsequent short. I’ve experienced this a few times with a couple of # 4 and #6 turnouts, but only with steamers.

My question is, would putting styrene strips in the frog to eliminate the drop be a viable option, or is there a better method???

Thank you!

The LION suggested putting chewing gum in the frog. Perhaps everybody thought that the LION was being hims own flippant self, but him was serious. (About as serious as a LION can get–after it has been fed anyway).

Let the gum harden and then file out a new flange way, and disguise the repair with paint.

The gum will adhere to the surfaces and nicely lock itself in place, yet it will be easy to file out.

LION has never done this mind you, but then the LION does not notice any wheel drop.

If you do not like the LIONS idea then go try somebody else’s idea, but it seems to this LION that ditzing with strips of styrene is asking for trouble.

ROAR

I don’t notice any drop on any of mine.

Are you having problems on the straight route, divergent route, or both?

Rich

I know that this will get me branded as an elitist, a fossil or worse. So be it.

I’ve long since eliminated all problems with Atlas, Peco, Shinohara and you-name-it commercial turnouts. I lay my own, to tightly-applied NMRA gauge and flangeway standards, but to my own geometry. Best of all possible worlds.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

How old are these turnouts that you have problems with? Atlas has improved the frogs on the code 100 Custom Line turnouts compared with years ago. The newer versions have been out for some 10 years or more now.

How big, in rigid wheelbase are these steamers you are running through #4 turnouts?

I have not known the “frog drop” problem to derail steam locos, if there is a drop, are you sure that is causing the derailment?

I use Atlas code 83 turnouts and do NOT use any semi scale wheels - I have no “frog drop” issues.

Dispite those who put them down, I have measured quite a few recent production Atlas turnouts and they conform to NMRA standards just as closely as Walthers, Peco, ME, etc.

Sheldon

That would explain why I have no dropped frogs. All of my Atlas Code 100 #6 turnouts are 8 years old or less.

Only the older portion of my layout is Code 100. On the Code 83 portion of my layout, the Atlas #6 turnouts have raised frogs.

Rich

Hi!

Most of my turnouts are of the current vintage, but some could be 15 years old. Please note that I am not having a serious problem at all. But I did notice that there is a wheel drop on a couple of Atlas frogs, and had a couple instances where leading truck wheels on a couple steamers derailed - but only on occasion.

I had read some time back where folks were putting slivers of styrene in the bottom of the frog “grooves” so they did not have wheel drop. I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time, but now am wondering if I should do that to the 4 turnouts I noticed with that “drop situation”.

The raised frogs are a quality control issue Atlas had for a while. Gently file them flush wit the running rails - no problem, no more “bump”.

Sheldon

Hi, Mobileman. I use the same turnouts, all different ages. I’ve found and fixed a few that way. pretty easy fix.

Terry in NW Wisconsin

Yes some people shim up the bottom of frogs to cause the flanges to ride on the bottom, but this is not really a good practice in my view. Even if you think all your equipment has RP25 flanges, they can vary, and this can cause problems.

If the turnouts have proper flangeway widths and proper gauge, noticable “drop” should not happen except possibly with code 88 semi scale wheels.

Are they all Custom Line #4’s or are some of them plastic frog “Snap Switches”? The plastic frog Snap Switches are not #4’s, they are actually #3.5, just as the Custom Line #4’s are actually #4.5.

The Snap Switches are subject to more frog wear, and are slighly outside NMRA standards to allow for the constant curve to match 18" radius sectional track.

Hope this helps.

Sheldon

I’ve never had that problem.

Hello,

Yes. Many years ago I eliminated or at least minimized the annoying Atlas frog drop on both #4 and #6 code 100 custom-line circa 1989 turnouts. I cut wedge shaped shims from sheet styrene. After getting the first one to size I used it as a template for the others. Used CA to glue them down, then painted them black. Not certain, but I think I used .015" styrene, which left a very small amount of clearance between my largest diameter wheel flange and shim.

regards, Peter

One critical thing, check wheels gauge. I did have some bumping issues with Code 83 #6’s on my previous layout but as I got all my plastic wheels replaced with metal, it went away. Checking with an NMRA standards gauge, I found every wheelset that caused a bump at the frogs was out of spec, not b a lot, but noticeable on the gauge. The replacement metal wheelsets, that no longe bumped through frogs, were dead on when checked. A few locos with split axle trucks (ie, Athearn, P2K style) woudl do it as well, untilt he wheels were adjusted. Adjusting steam locos is not as easy, usually, but it can be done. Check them - you might be surprised.

–Randy

Thanks you all,

May I add… All my turnouts are the customline or whatever Atlas “top of the line” code 100 turnouts were for the years I bought them. And, all cars have Intermountain metal wheelsets.

From what I’ve read, it appears that the situation exists in select turnouts for select years of production. In example, for this layout I have several of the then new Atlas code 100 #8s, and these are perfect.

OK, I got the scoop on my layout situation…

Of the 40 something turnouts, there are 5 turnouts with silver metal frogs. The rest of the turnouts have black plastic frogs. The 5 are obviously older ones and coincidently have the “drop”. Three are number 4s, two are number sixes.

As none of these have powered frogs, I can add a triangular shim to the top of the frog, paint it black and no one will know the difference. I believe (as someone wrote earlier) a shim of .015 styrene would work out pretty good.

ALL recent (20 plus years) Atlas Custom Line turnouts have metal frogs that are isolated from all the rails and have a power lug for connection of a wire if you choose to power them. If they are within that time range they are metal not plastic. Are the frogs black? That does not mean they are plastic, they come blackened, except the new #8’s.

There was a an early period of metal frogs not blackened and it sould like those are the ones you are having problems with. Late 70’s early 80’s I believe. For the price of an Atlas turnout, I would simply replace them.

Very old (1960’s and 70’s) Custom Line turnouts did have plastic frogs.

With a little research here I can document all the versions, progression, but they have been isolated and metal for quite a while now.

Sheldon

Sheldon,

Thanks, I stand corrected… all my Atlas turnouts have metal frogs, and none have plastic. Five have the “white metal” frogs and these are the ones with the dropoff.

I started building this layout 3 years ago, and it replaced a similar layout built in the early '90s. Anyway, my starting inventory of Atlas turnouts consisted of 4 different generations (I’ve been in HO since the '60s).

I found out real quick that the first two were problematic and many of the 3rd (which is what I call these white metal frogged units) were not that great either. Ha, what I should have done was take that opportunity to migrate to code 83…

Thanks!

I used some of the thin Plastruct dark gray plastic to shim up some offending frog. I started with white plastic painted black, but after some time, the flanges were wearing off the paint leaving a noticeable white stripe. The dark gray plastic stays dark gray.

I actually had a number of offending turnouts. The “bump” occurs as the wheel traverses from the closure rails to the point in the frog casting. It’s not much, but it was noticeable to me. With a fair bit of pressure, roll a freight car through a frog - if there’s even a slight bump, a thin shim will solve it. I can roll a car through my turnouts now and not detect anything but smooth track.

Mark.

Thanks!

Going through every turnout on the layout, I found that 4 or the 6 located on the lower level (staging/storage) were the white metal kind. I recall that when I built the layout, I wanted these “less attractive” turnouts out of sight. Anyway, yesterday I cut out three small blunt ended triangle pieces of styrene, and they resolved the situation. As the turnouts are hard to get to, these triangles were easy to put into place, with a drop of ACC to hold them.

The more accessible turnouts were fixed with two small strips, and they are working just fine.