Has anyone here ever traveled by Santa Fe? If so, where did you go and would you rate it better than current Amtrak service?[:(][:p]
Oh, my, yes. Super Chief, Texas Chief (my particular favorite) San Francisco Chief, El Capitan and No. 23, the old Grand Canyon. My whole problem with Amtrak is that I remember what Santa Fe trains were like, and Amtrak isn’t even on the same planet.
My first trip riding a real intercity passenger train was on the Santa Fe. It was Thanksgiving day of 1956 and we went to Kansas City from Chicago on the Kansas Cityan. To this day I remember how clean and fre***he interiors of Santa Fe passenger trains were. I couldn’t wait to have breakfast in the diner. It was my first encounter with toast that had the crust trimmed off. The bacon came on its own platter with a sprig of parsley. The train had a big dome car in the consist where I spent most of my time. I made Pop take me from one end of the train to the other in hopes of getting into the parlor-observation car.
We made several trips to KC since then. By the time we made our next trip the Kansas Cityan was gone and number 19, The Chief, was moved up to a 9am departure from Chicago. It was even better. Had the same big dome, and a great diner. Again there was that unmistakable fresh Santa Fe fragrence in the cars. I was 14 at this time and the Conductor out of Chicago let me accompany him while he collected tickets. He taught me how to punch, pouch, and issue seat checks for the tickets. That’s when I knew I would be a trainman one day. His relief conductor, Lee Braggan, out of Fort Madison, was just as nice. He had me opening the doors at station stops and putting down the step box. Our coach attendant, U.S. Birmingham just laughed. He said they had me doing all the work. But I loved it.
A few years later I had received a Santa Fe conductor’s badge from Pete Petreson, who was the assistant to Ross Chappel, passenger taffic manager at the time. In fact I had a whole SF uniform. The conductor that morning was off the extra board and wasn’t used to collecting tickets. So I showed him. Every one of the Santa Fe people i encountered in the '60s were kind gentlemen. Every one of the Santa Fe trains were well run, clean, and had an air of professionality and wordly-ness that I had not seen in other operations.
You ask now how I would compare Santa Fe’s service to that of Amtra
In 1948 my grandfather rode the Santa Fe “Chief” from LA to Chicago when he got discharged out of the marines. He always said it was a great ride.
I was just a little kid when we rode. I think it must have been right at the end. I think it was the Southwest, because the thing I remember the most are napkins that had a southwest design on them. But even at that age, I could tell it was run fairly well, now that I can compare it to modern-day trains.
Dave
Los Angeles, CA
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I can only agree with the posts above. I had the privilege of riding the Texas Chief several times. I especially remember the fine style of the service aboard the dining car. Amtrak is just a ride; Santa Fe was an experience.
Child of a Santa Fe stowman in Dodge City, my first Santa Fe train-riding memories are of those very pedestrian trains available to pass-holders. The California Limited (Nos. 3 & 4), for example, or Nos. 9 & 10 which ran between Kansas City and Denver. Ancient cars, open windows, no air conditioning, and news butches instead of diners. And steam engines in many cases. But who was complaining! We shared the rails with El Capitan, et al! Ah, at age 8 I remember the conductor on No.10 eastbound out of La Junta telling us that we were “chasing” the Chief (No. 20), running on the same block, us with steam, yet! Santa Fe out there was SPEED! Super Chief (No. 17) westbound from Dodge to La Junta, 202 miles in 2 3/4 hours!
Nirvana! Age 11. My parents pop for a round-trip ticket fo me from Dodge City to Kansas City on El Capitan. Awe barely captures my state of mind. Silver glory! Traveling alone and terrified! An assigned seat! Must mean I’m not supposed to leave it. Even the beautiful, uniformed train “nurse” couldn’t coax me to go to the lounge. Couldn’t have afforded a Coke anyway! To this day, “El Capitan” captures the essence of Santa Fe … all coach, all silver, all diesel, all speed … accessible to even the little boy in Dodge …
Having had the pleasure of rideing the SUPER CHIEF, EL CAPITAN, CHIEF, TULSAN, KANSAS CITYAN, CHICAGOAN, SAN DIEGANS and GRAND CANYONS on many occasions and try and compare these trains to the likes of Amtraks EMPIRE BUILDER and SOUTHWEST CHIEF is not a fare comparison at all. Amtrak stinks where service, cleanliness, and food or beverage service is concerned. The SUPERLINERS were based on the EL CAPITAN Hi Levels but having ridden coaches in both, the AT&SF cars are far more solid and comfortable then the modern counterparts. The lounge was excellent as was the diner and the menu was certainly not comparable. The SUPER was without doubt one of the three finest trains I ever had the pleasure of riding. The other two were the GN EMPIRE BUILDER and NYC TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED.Today if one wants an idea what riding the Santa Fe was like you neeed to visit Canada and ride the CANADIAN, it is the closest thing to remembering the Santa Fe’s finest available at affordable prices today. Alas Santa Fe is no more and neither are the fine trains that once traveled the routes of that fine railroad so I guess i’m stuck with Amtrak and should make the most of it. Remember if Amtrak goes their is no other alternative but flight and that doesn’t compare to even present Amtrak service. Fortunately I am old enough to have experienced the finest trains in the land when they were still worth riding.
There were women dressed like airline stewardesses walking the aisles each holding a tray of candy, peanuts, cigarettes etc. like a ballpark vendor. The cars smelled of cigars. I was too young to know why and grew up with the idea that passenger cars smelled like cigars.
The quality of service was like airline first class before deregulation.
Having grown up in New York in the 1950’s I didn’t have the pleasure of riding any SF trains (a bunch of NYC, but no SF). Any of us can say we missed some of the more gentile experiences of generations past, and this was one of mine.
Do you think if the level of service and grace that Santa Fe delivered could be mustered up today, the general public would buy it?
Rode both. ATSF was orders of magnitude better. Early Super with the ATSF people still had the old luxury/fine service feel, but ATK was quick to downgrade. Understand from friends who have that the comments about the Canadian are pretty much on point, but I haven’t ridden it.
There is definitely a market segment that would buy it, but the other issues, such as reliability have to be fixed before they would begin to pay attention.
The only Santa Fe trains I rode before Amtrak were a fantrip in 1966 consisting of 2 torpedo boat GP7s and 5 heaveyweight cars including lounge observation 1509.I was 14 and I spent most of the time on the rear platform.I also rode the San Diegan twice.The first time was a fantrip consisting of a full length dome lounge and five coaches on the rear of the regular train.The ride in the dome was awesome[:)]! The second trip was the day before Amtrak.I was shocked because they charged 30 cents for a Coke in the lounge car[:0].SP only charged 25 cents.The Santa Fe lounge was a lot nicer than an SP Automat, though[:)]!
Well, I guess Johnny Mercer must have ridden the Santa Fe a lot. Why else would he have included these lines in his famous song: “It’s a treat to be on your feet all day, on the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe!”
I rode lots of Sante Fe trains, from the Super on down to the coach-only El Cap and the old San Diego service. Except for the San Diego service, and that only because of the much greater frequency today, there is no question that Amtrak has to improve a lot to equal what the SF did. Equipment was always clean, on-time performance was the rule, meals five star, everything worked in the roomettes, overall possibly very best passenger service in the USA ever! But I am still a D&RGW and NYNH&H fan!
Absolutely yes. That’s what everyone has been waiting for since 5/1/71. It could be done. Back in '79, when I was working Milwukee-Chicago Turbo trains, I became aquainted with Pearl Bailley. She would ride from LA to NYC and change trains in Chicago. I would visit with her on her layovers and we discussed that very notion. The comfort, the exclusivity, the change of pace would attract a lot of riders. If it were run at convenient times, and was punctual and reliable, and not over-done, but rational, I’m convinced it would sell, and sell big.
Mitch
Yes, several times out of flagstaff, Denver, L.A., Phoenix , Prescott and several times from Williams to the Grand Canyon not as a passenger but working on the telephone lines for mountain states telephone and telegraph sub. of AT&T. The good old days. I recently took the Amtrak coast starlite from L.A. to Seattle and could not have had a better trip. It was clean , meals great and treated very well. I got some great pictures. But Amtrak from Boston to New Youk is a different story. Worst trip I have ever had.
Lets not have another grammer lesson I ment New York. (sorry)
I Chiefed west in 1964. Rode the Grand Canyon local train to Williams Jct. and then took the El Capitan to LAUPT. I was nine years old! Great trip in those days.
I have ridden Amtrak’s Texas Chief in 1972-1973. And the Southwest Chief or Southwest Limited whatever it was called back in the late '70s and early '80s. The route was still the same.
I took the Santa Fe Super Chief along with my family in 1967 - The trip was Chicago to LA and back. It was great. I was only 12 years old but I remember so very well. As far as amtrak - My first run on it will be on The Empire Builder - Chicago to Portland, OR in late January. I will write more when I get back from that trip. I must say this - the amtrak ride will have to be above awesome to evan began to match that of the great Santa Fe Super Chief.
ds