There was one old timer from the EL…holy moley! I’m talking diesel era here!..who told me that right after the merger he and another engineer would leave Elmira, NY eastbound to Binghamton one following the other and running track speed on marker sight and radio chatter! Both supposedly knew the road well enough to know the speed limits and locations, etc. so that the one in the following train would apparently run yellow boards as green boards but would not pass a red board. Seat of the pants signalling that they say they got away with! The way he spoke the lead train went to Scranton on the Lackawanna from Binghamton while his train went on to Susquehanna on the Erie. He told me this story about 30 or so years ago of course. He is still around, retired.
Slightly off topic but I was involved (in a minor role) with the lawsuit against the railroads hauling coal from the Powder River. Somebody in the opposition figured out that if the trains ran as often as the RR wanted to, there would be some small towns that would be effectively cut in half - the grade crossings would be blocked by moving trains something like 40-45 min. out of every hour.
I’d have to challenge someone’s methods there. At 7,000’ long, going 50 m.p.h., I calculate a coal train would pass in 1.6 minutes. To be blocked for 40 minutes out of the hour, you would have to have 25 trains per hour(40 divided by 1.6). 25 trains x 24 hours =600 trains per day=31,200 trains per year. Am I doing the math right? And besides, who could argue with any railroad able to run 31,200 trains per year down a line?[:P]
Math is OK except for the last - it appears you multiplied the 600 trains per day only by 52 weeks per year = 31,200 trains.
Instead: 600 trains / day x 365 days / yr. =
219,000 trains per year = roughly NYC subway density, I suppose !
But don’t forget that the crossing gates will go down at least 30 seconds before the train gets there, and will take a few seconds to go back up afterwards. So it’s more like 1.6 + 0.5 + 0.1 = 2.2 mins. per train. So 40 mins. blocked crossings would be about 18 trains per hour - or only about 157,680 trains per year !!!
- Paul North.
But if you have a double track main wouldn’t trains running “side by side” and/or trains running in the opposite direction change the calculations so that the crossing could actually be unusable by auto traffic 40 or more minutes per hour?
If the trains in Iowa were doing anything close to track speed, they were definitely running on clear signals. Automatic Train Control begins at the north end of Council Bluffs. Except for a couple of signals near Missouri Valley, even an Advance Approach (flashing yellow) will cause them to reduce to Restricted Speed to avoid a penalty brake application.
The signals between Council Bluffs and Missouri Valley were recently (within the last year) changed. The changes were block lengths and the addition of the Advance Approach indication. Before the blocks were longer and only displayed G - Y - R. Now they can display G - FY - Y - R. To maintain maximum speed trains have to be about 5 to 6 miles apart.
Jeff
I don’t think so. At the worst, it could mean that the trains would tie up the crossing exactly twice as long. I still don’t think any railroad would, or could run anywhere near that many trains per hour/day/year, even if they wanted to.
Aha - now we’ve got some real information !
Jeff - What is the rule/ speed associated with the Advance Approach (Flashing Yellow) indication in this territory ? As compared with Approach (“hard” Yellow) ?
Now I’m wondering what speed would be optimum to maximize the number of such trains through a terrirtory or past a point in a given time, say 1 hour ? As a comparison, early in my enginee
The rules for Advance Approach and Approach don’t really change. What causes trains to slow down in ATC is that it uses a two aspect cab signal either clear or restricting. Most places in ATC when you go past an Advance Approach, the cab signal changes to a restricting. ATC allows you only so much time to get down to restricted speed before it initiates a penalty brake application. Once down to restricted speed the equipment will not allow speed to rise over 23 mph under a restricting cab signal. If it does, the ATC will initiate a penalty brake application. So for everyone to be doing track speed or close to it, everyone has to be on clear signals. It should be noted that the Restricted Speed rule’s limit of 20 mph or less (sometimes a lot less) still applies. The 23 mph limit is what the equipment is set to.
My last trip out there we were doing about 40 going through that area. When we entered a block where we would see the next signal, it would light up as a FY and change to G when we were about half way through the block. Maximum time table speed, if your train isn’t restricted by some condition, is 60 MPH between Council Bluffs and Mo Valley.
Jeff