I stopped by my LHS last night to pick up some odds-and-ends. The owner was testing out an Atlas RS-3 in which he had just installed a Lok Sound decoder and speaker. I was quite impressed with the sound. The sound quality and volume were good. I’m assuming the Lok decoder has back EMF because the engine appeared to maintain a constant speed up and down grades.
All in all, it was quite impressive, especially considering the lack of space that’s available in the RS-3.
Did it have the Alco sound? Hard to find decoders for Alco. I installed a Soundtraxx DSD100 Alco decoder in a Proto 1000 Rs1. It sounds OK, but you are right. Not a lot of room to work with. I have another RS3 and another Soundtraxx decoder, that I have not got around to installing yet. Still considering other options.
I was wondering if there were decoders that could controle speed up and down grades. So, your saying such a thing exists? Is that what the EMF refers to?
It is nice to see this feedback on the Lok decoders. I ordered a set of PCM Daylight PA/PB/PAs and the first thing I heard about LokSound after I ordered them is that their sound decoders were a pain to deal with, and didn’t sound that good. Since then I have seen quite a bit of positive feedback about them, so I am feeling a lot better about the purchase. I guess we will see in a few weeks (hopefully).
I have a PCM Galloping Goose 0n30, with Lok Sound, and it is really EXCELLENT. Be happy.
Loksound is a very clear sounding system, but the ones I have do not have Prototype sounds. If you are happy with the sound of the model ALCO’s and if they sound like a real ALCO diesel, that would be great.
Yes, and almost Yes, that is one thing that can be done with “back EMF”. EMF is just Electro Motive Force. But my question is unless someone was doing a computer controlled layout, why would they want this? A real engineer has to constantly adjust the the throttle to work the train through the grades/curves etc. Having a model do it automatically makes being a model engineer seem very toy like. If anything I would like the DCC system to enhance the prototypical speed variations of the train by doing things like simulating loads and slack (slingshot) while half the train is up hill while the back half is still coming down. That would require the engineer to be more up-on-the-wheel to keep the train running right.
Unfortunately, one can never be certain about sound units until one hears them for themselves. I’ve read reports that the MRC decoders “sound good”, so !!!. To many people’s ears, loud = good. Many people reported “good sound” from the QSI units they put in the GP9s even though it is the wrong prime mover. I just got a set of BLI F3s that have the wrong horn sound and the engines don’t load up properly the way 1st generation EMD uints did. Yet others gave them rave reviews???
Another option…Digitrax SFX. Get the ac4400 plug and play Combo decoder. It is the size of a typical PC board found in most locomotives making it a perfect candidate for installations in different locomotives. There are sounds available and the ability to download them to the decoder make it my choice for ALL my diesel locomotives.
David
Loksound decoders have EXCELLENT back-EMF. ANd BEMF is NOT just for cruise control. It’s not as big a deal with a diesel, but even the best steam locomotives usually have more moving parts and thus more opportunities for minor binding no matter how much you adjust and lubricate. As such, without BEMF, getting a steam loco to TRULY crawl without BEMF is nearly impossible. With good BEMF though - my PCM T-1 will really crawl on speed step 1, to the point of taking more than a half hour to circle my 8x12 loop. You won’t get that performance without BEMF - a mechanically identical BLI M-1 with QSI (no update chip, the update adds BEMF) can be made to start at speed step 1 by adjusting the start voltage, but nowhere near as slow as the T-1 can run.
Good BEMF backs off at higher speeds do it doesn’t act as out and out cruise control. There may be some help going up hills but the loco will still slow down unless more throttle is added. The othe thing BEMF gives you is load-based sounds, this can work with steam or diesel. Start the loco with no train, you get minor engine revving. Start it with a heavy train and it will rev the diesel or start with stronger chuffs. Come down a hill and the reduced load will allow the engine sound to settle down, or in the case of a steam loco (the Tsunami does this well) reduce the chuffs to almost silent and allow the sounds of rod clank to be heard (unless it is a roller bearing loco). There is WAY more to BEMF than ‘cruise control’
—Randy
A correction and an obvservation:
Correction: EMF does not stand for Electro Motive Force. It means Electro-Magnetic Feedback, and refers to the natural induction feedback in any electric motor. Some decoders detect this and use it to determine the actual speed of the motor, as opposed to the amount of current being sent to it, and, depending on the decoder settings, automatically adjust the current sent.
It’s most useful at low speeds, so an engine that’s crawling slowly on plain track won’t stall on rough trackwork or turnouts, and is also good at higher speeds to make the reaction to increasing or decreasing loads, like on upgrades and downgrades, more gradual, like the prototype. Yes, set too high, there won’t be any speed change, but if set properly, it seems more natural.
Observation: Yes, the LokSound decoders, among others, use EMF, and there is some adjustablility. But before you buy a LokSound, also investigate some of the features, or lack of features, so you’re not surprised. For example, if you’re used to SoundTraxx decoders that can be set to be silent when the layout is powered-on, until a speed or function command is sent to that decoder, be advised that you cannot do this with a LokSound. A function key must be specifically assigned. Some use F0 (lights), so the sound is on when, and only when, the lights are on.
Also note that their documentation is outdated and sketchy, compared to QSI and the SoundTraxx Tsunami. A small booklet is all you get, and all that’s available on their US website, and without a “cheat sheet” from Tony’s or others, there is no information on how to do Rule 17 lighting. As of a couple of months ago, the only place you could find that was on the German website or their user group.
When I puchased the PCM E7’s with the factory Lok sound, I was very impressed with them, but when I purchased a stand alone v3.5 decoder, I was less than impressed with it.
the sound seemed very thin and weak, the manual is the most cryptic thing I have ever tried to read or use, the features seemed to be lacking, and the 100 ohm output severely limits the speaker options, too many shortfalls for me, especially for a decoder with a $140 msrp.
the factory N scale E’s have more functions, and a louder fuller sound than the HO decoder with twice the speaker area.
Oh man, someone has put words to what I was trying to do with my own T1 and M1a. NICE!
There was a lawsuit some time ago that prevented Back EMF from going into some of the engines from BLI. I will have to &q
My updates to the BLI/QSI engines comes with a mixed review. I ordered ten chips but only installed three so far. Be advised the steam has an alternate chuff choice, which is very good by the way, but the problem I have with the back EMF QSI replacement chip is it cogs the engine at slow speeds. Yes, the engine will run slower than 1 mph, but it cogs the motor and makes it jerky, instead of the smooth results I wanted.
The alternate chuff is much better to my thinking than the regular chuffs and the whistles have been updated in some cases. Overall, it is a good buy but not as smooth as it should be.
As long as there is some kind of improvement. I dont expect much from some of my BLI engines epsecially when they cog badly in reverse; must be the where they got built in Asia or something.
I really have to disagree with a lot of this. I found the manual easy to follow and the decoder very easy to program, far more so than some of the ones I’ve had in the past from the likes of BLI, Soundtraxx and especially Digitrax.
Even with two of the smallest speakers installed I get good volume from LokSound decoders. [{(-_-)}] I have two - one is factory installed in a N scale Fleischmann DBAG DMU railcar - this has a tiny side port speaker in it. It has an excellent sound profile of this railcar (which I have travelled on in Germany).
The other is one I installed myself in a HO scale Stewart U25B with the correct sounds loaded on it for me by Tony’s Train Exchange (I have nothing to compare with here - I have never heard a U25B, but it sounds quite different to an EMD unit so I assume its about right). I installed the one in the U25B with the twin 16mm speaker set mounted in the long hood. The only negative coment I have is that the recording of the horn for the U25B sound profile is much quieter than some of the other sounds, so even with the other sounds turned down a bit its still too quiet for my taste.
There is loads of functionality in the decoder, and I found it far easier to map functions on this than on a standard non-sound Digitrax series 3 decoder! The Back EMF functionality is excellent too for improving running at low speeds.
Having heard others use this decoder with the “generic” steam sound profile loaded on it I am less impressed with this -but not the volume or functionality - just the sounds; I will probably stick with Tsunami’s for my steam locos, unless a better ste
As I siad, I am very happy with the factory PCM lok sound in my N scale E7s.
I was far less than impressed with the #72427 V 3.5 decoder, EMD 567 16 cylnder non-dynamic, single chime decoder, that I purchased for a P2K HO BL-2. The sound is very thin and weak, even compared t the sountraxx decoders.
I tried several different CV settings, after weeking through that manual, several speaker locations, firing up into the shell, down through the trucks, fans open, fans sealed, and different sized speaker enclosures, all with unsatisfactory results compared to the N locos.
No real advancement over the soudtraxx decoders, at half the price.
will I rip it out and throw it away, No, but will I run out to drop another $100 on one, not a chance.
Have been very impressed with the Lok Sound units I’ve heard. A friend of mine has been experimenting with it and, IMHO, it’s sweet music.
The Lok Sound programmer is worth the price! It’s great to be able to load up which ever horn, primemover or pop-off sounds you wish.
As I’ve posted before, my friend installed a Lok Sound system in his Athearn SCL SD45-2. He uploaded the 20 cylinder EMD sound set up. Awesome! Then I commented then that as some prototype SCL units aged, their air pop offs lasted longer. He uploaded and replaced the air pop-off with that from another locomotive which had a longer pop-off sound. Was sweet music indeed. [{(-_-)}]
Yes! I’ve got a Soundtraxx Alco myself, and I was listening to a LokSound Alco (both RS-3’s, I think) at my LHS the other day. Both had that characteristic Alco sound, which, for those who don’t know it, sounds like an engine about to throw a rod. I thought the LokSound had a “cleaner” audio, but it could be the installation or the speaker, or even the volume level. (Mine is down lower to keep my wife and daughter from committing engineericide.)
MisterBeasley,
You’re right on the Alco sound. I like the way someone summed it before: Alcos sound like Harley Davidson bikes on steroids!
Harleys: Pata-ta, Pata-ta, Pata-ta
Alco 244/251: Diddy-wump, diddy-wump, diddy-wump
As Don Ball Jr. once stated, Alcos in high throttle sound like their engines are about to fly apart!
Truck desiels are either whiners, tappers or chuggers.
The chuggers are those without the fancy computer stuff, if you get it just so with everything in balance it can be good music.