I know this topic has being touched a few times…but I could not find my specific answers.
I’m wondering how much PSI people use for Freight Cars, Engines…
I have a Single Action Badger 250 and using the Badger Modflex Paint and I have being consistently spotty, to thick, or Runs or Whatever else you can think of…I clean the models 2-3 times with Soap, try to Prime and Use Rubber gloves…etc…Should I be using 20 PSI or less so not so thick or do I have that backwards and be using 30+??? Currently, I’m close to the 25 PSI range.
I also do have a Dual Action, No Name Iwata that I am really not using yet and it seems to Dry & stop spraying withing a couple mins when I do try it out. Should I be watering this Modflex down or Using quite a bit more thinner for this. The modflex the way I understood is good to go right at purchase.
I spray everything at 15PSI, I use 20PSI when priming the part, and 15 when spraying the color. I can’t help you with the Modelflex, don’t use it. I either use Floquil.
Typically you need higher pressure with acrylics then solvent based paints. Sorry never used Modelflex so I can’t say anything about it. All any one who ever sprays paint either it be with a regualr spray gun to lets say paint a car or an airbrush to paint a model does is test spray before you paint. Don’t test on the car it self but on a piece of cardboard an old box sheet of plywood a door anything. You may need to fine tune your air flow depending on how you mixed that exact batch of paint. How are you adjusting your air pressure to the airbrush? I suggest you use an inline regulator that is calibrated for lower A/P rather then just rely on the one from the compressor.
Just for the heck of it try shooting a different brand of paint or another bottle of the same. Getting band batches of paint is something that does happen. I once tried to spray Flowquil reefer yellow and it looked and sprayed like something a bird would leave on a windshield. I used some paint I had left over from House of color ( a custome line of paint for cars and bikes primarily) and it sprayed like a dream. So it may not be anything your doing. When in doubt go back through all of your steps one by one.
Thanks for the Info, Since it’s Acrylic, I’ll try 30+ PSI with the Badger and hope for the best, do you think I should be using some extender for that VEDA (Iwata) Double Action of mine as it seems to stop spraying in under 2 mins?
My backup brush is a 250 and I have shot Modelflex straight from the jar without problems. Could it be your paint is old and requires a thorough mixing? Is the airbrush clean as it can be? My problems with the 250 have always been related to left over crap in the paint pathway resulting in blockage, splatter, etc. Oh, I shoot from a can so but with the valve barely open to modulate the pressure.
I also use the badger model 250 airbrush. Usually spray it at 30 PSI starting, and then try to keep it around that (have a huge air compressor that my dad’s friend let’s us use; it’s overkill but it works, lol). Also, you need to thin the paint. I’ve sued both polly scale paint and also model master. The polly scale I thin 3 or 4 parts paint to one part 70% alcohol; the model master I just eyeballed; did use the testor’s thinner though as the model master is enamel paint.
As to the thinner question, follow the directions on the bottle; I have no experience with the badger paint.
First, you didn’t describe your air supply setup. Do you have any moisture trap/filter? A compressor or propel cans? A moisture trap is important, water in your air supply will cause splotchy, spotty paint jobs as the water is splurtted on the paint.
Second, the 250 airbrush is a very basic, simple airbrush. I wouldn’t expectmuch out of it.
What you are experiencing with it drying everytime you stop is typical for acrylic, water based paint. Its one of the reasons I prefer not to use it and prefer a solvent based paint such as floquil.
Thanks for all the input guys; I have a compressor and as far as I know, NO moisture Trap/Filter which may be the problem as I keep it in my Garage in our Canadian North, usually I’ll blow out anything before I try to start.
As for older Paint, I have some pretty new stuff that I don’t think that’s the problem. I didn’t get time to try it yet today with the 30 PSI but will tomorrow if the Wife gives me a few mins sanity time…LOL…
I do plan on going to Scalecoat from what I’ve seen other people do but was hoping for at least some skill at this before I do…
I think that your best bet would be to check the paint manufacturers’ suggestions for recommended thinners, percentage of thinner to use, and their suggestions for the proper pressure for spraying.
I prefer lacquer-based paints but, using info found in various model railroading threads, tried acrylics to see if they would be a viable option. Using alcohol as a thinner, and spraying at some of the high pressures, as suggested, made them very “user unfriendly”, in my opinion. However, after consulting the manufacturer’s web site, [banghead] I found that using the suggested distilled water and lower pressures yielded excellent results, both in finish and ease of application. And there was no clogging of the airbrush, either, in almost two hours of painting.
Well, I tried with the 30 PSI and worked out 200% better, the ModelFlex that I am using says it’s already thinned to what it should be; BUT I did thin it out just a touch and it worked even better. I am not quite there yet but really getting the hang of it.
When your talking about thinning though, I have a little Modelflex bottle I bought for thinning. Do you guys normally use 70% 99% of Isopropyl Alcohol or Distilled Water or???
Doing a blowdown will not help much; the moisture trap removes ambient moisture in the air. When air is compressed, it can not hold as much moisture and can fall below the dew point thus entraining water droplets in the air supplied to your air brush even if the room air seems dry. This will show up in the paint as you spray.
Surface preperation is also important, particularly with acrylics. Many models have grease or oils on them from the manufacturing process or just from handling. Cleaning with soap and water or a citrus based cleaner will result in better adhesion and coverage when you spray. Use gloves to handle after cleaning so oils from your skin do not stick to the cleaned surfaces. This did not be much of a problem with solvent based paints, but as solvent formulations have changed to be less toxic, I have sometimes noticed problems with solvent paint not covering evenly.
According to some notes I’ve made from articles in MR and other sources, the thinner for Badger Modelflex is distilled water. Some like to use windshield washer fluid or alcohol. The thinning ratio is either no thinner or 10-15% water. The recommended air pressure is 15 psi. Now keep in mind that even if the advice is published in a magazine, a little experimenting my still be called for. Like a previous poster said, do a trial spray on a piece of white cardstock before doing the model. One thing to remember is that acrylic paints dry very fast, much faster than solvent based paints. Just setting your air brush down for a few minutes to adjust the model or put another one into the spray booth can be enough for the paint to start to dry in the brush and clog the nozzle.
Well, I tried with the 30 PSI and worked out 200% better, the ModelFlex that I am using says it’s already thinned to what it should be; BUT I did thin it out just a touch and it worked even better. I am not quite there yet but really getting the hang of it.
When your talking about thinning though, I have a little Modelflex bottle I bought for thinning. Do you guys normally use 70% 99% of Isopropyl Alcohol or Distilled Water or???
Thanks Again Guys…
Don’t waste you money on a moisture trap. Typically when you use an airbrush especially on models your not spraying long enough for any appreciable amount of moisture to accumulate. A cheap easy fix is run a long hose around 15’ to 20’ by the time the hot compressed air that comes out of the compressor hits your air brush it will be cooled down to ambient temperature.
Invest in a little battery operated mixer from Micromark or whom ever. You may think you have the paint mixed up enough but that little wheel spinning a heck of a lot faster then you would ever do it by hand makes a world of difference.
I don’t use any alcohol for cleaning. I typically clean acrylics with distilled or DI water. Not everyone has a DI machine but I happen to have one. distilled will work just fine. I use it in between colors if I am doing more then one on a given project at the time I’m painting. I do a tear down at least every two weeks and thoroughly clean all parts of the disassembled air brush in lacquer thinner. I scrub the parts if needed with an old tooth brush but more commonly just put them in a jar and shake them up and I do this several times. I have picked up air brushes at swap meets and flea markets that have been neglected and some of those have taken a couple of days worth of soaking. Every time I do this I change out the O-rings as they cost pennies and I don’t like reusing any thing that creates a seal. You can get awa
Just a note to say thanks again and trying to get it right as I was just out trying to Prime some Boxcars. How many coats of Prime and then once Primed, How many coats of your desired color do you usually do??
I was just thinking and somehow I forgot this but in the spring I Primed a couple of Cheaper Cars with an Aersol can & they came out Spotless, no Runs or anything and of course my daughter has them now with her Crayons…but what about the Aersols for Priming for Acrylic and Solvents?
I keep editing this one, The splatter that I seem to get, would this be caused by shaking the bottle, (bubbles??) Should I be stirring this instead? I do use a screen to pour into the bottles before my gun of course.
1- Primer should be applied thin but covering the surface and preferably have a similar colour to the top-coat.
2- Aerosols work fine, but isn´t really as good as a Airbrush. And much more expensive in the long run.
3- Splatter? If you get droplets of paint on the surface it is either water in the air or too thick paint. It could also be that you demand too much from the Airbrush you have. A simple “atomizer” can´t be expected to produce a similar result to a “real” Airbrush.
If someone says Harbour… one more time I will explode[:D]. Buy something that can actually be served and repaired instead. I mean, you don´t buy a Car in a Super-market do you? Support your LHS and buy some decent make if you feel that you have to invest.
Graffen is spot (or should I say splatter) on. The “airbrush” you have is nothing more than an atomizer. it is the cheapest, simplest airbrush you could buy. Do NOT expect too much from. The adjustments you can make are minimal. Can you get a good base coat using it, sure, with the right paint and right technique. Again, as others have suggested, switch to solvent based paints. They are much more forgiving.
The other point that Graffen is correct on is that your airbrush is an investment. Don’t go out and buy a cheap piece of junk (such as the Harbor Freight one everyone talks about) and then complain about how it performs. Skip the model 250, save your money and buy a step or two better. But then this is the place where people recommend going out and buying a EZ DCC system to get started in DCC and THEN buy a ‘real’ DCC system.
I highly recommend Painting and Weathering Railroad Models by Jeff Wilson. All the information you need is in there, including, air pressure, dilution, and solvent by paint manufacturer.
Mix your paint thoroughly before and after diluting. I use the battery powered mixer sold by Micro Mark. It is fast and works very effectively. I have even used 10+ year old PolyS acrylic without a problem.
I use about 25 psi, but believe that I could use less. I agree with the idea of buying a lower range pressure regulator to get better consistency in the pressure setting. If you get runs, reduce the paint flow with the needle and/or move your airbrush faster.
I use distilled water and use a moisture trap in the air line.
For All Those Who Helped I am very Grateful, I updated a new on while testing Photobucket and is now:
Some Pics - testing Photobucket
The Grey Hoppers I did about 5 of these with the Modelflex and just didn’t agree with me.
The Grey Cylindrical Hopper I used Trueline and the Boxcars with approx 18 PSI and of course adjusting the tip, was always doing a test run on some Card Stock first. Someone mentioned about Heating the paint up a little in a Bowl which I found pleasently surprising…and thanks again for helping out…of course I’m still working on it but this is the Start I was hoping for.
I use an Iwata airbrush at 30psi with Polly S or Floquil. I have found the best consistency by following the manufacturer’s (Testor’s) recommendations for thinning. Typical thinning is 4 parts paint (well stirred) with 1 part thinner. Lacquer, as in a gloss overcote is usually 50:50.
Tips:
Make sure the airbrush is perfectly clean. Clean with a commercial cleaner AFTER EVERY USE. Take the airbrush apart and clean all parts, esp the paint intake.
2)Check spray pattern when you are ready to paint with a water bottle first.
3)Watch the pressure guage on the airbrush to be sure it is putting out 30psi. If it drops when you press the trigger, increase the pressure to 30psi. From then on it should remain so until it drops enough for the compressor to recycle.
4)If you have done all these things, you should get a nice even spray pattern. Remember to keep the airbrush moving and let the paint dry before you go back over it.
5)When done, clean the airbtush. Did I mention that?
