One of the more useful books I’ve picked up over the years is Kalmbach’s “The Model Railroaders Guide To Freight Yards” by Andy Sperandeo. It’s a great reference that I use all of the time.
Lance
Visit Miami’s Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
Brad:
Not sure if anyone’s mentioned it yet, but in the Anyrail picture you posted, one problem I see is that there’s no dedicated switching lead. The swticher pulling long cuts out of the body tracks will be blocking the main. I read up-thread that you intend this yard primarily for storage & staging, so maybe this is no big deal. Also no big deal if you don’t expect to have high traffic levels on your main. But if you want to make this an “operating” yard and you don’t want through trains to wait on the yard job, you may want to work in a dedicated switching lead.
Good luck,
Okay, Brad - the stuff above is what you say you want/need. On the other hand, what you draw, shows an engine terminal and an “inter-modal yard”.
Maybe the first thing you should read is Byron Henderson’s blog post “Does this yard make me look fat?”, where Byron makes the obvious, but oft ignored in web forums, point that it is not sensible to try to evaluate and optimize a yard design until you understand what purpose it is supposed to serve.
What is it really you want to be able to do with your yard?
Will you have several people running trains in and around your yard simultaneously?
Will one (or more) person need to run his trains into the yard while another is sorting in the yard ?
Will most traffic be coming from the left, most from the right or about as much traffic come from both sides?
Will the yard be building trains for many destinations simultaneously?
How long trains will you be running into and out of the yard ?
Will you have traffic destinations/sources in the yard - like an inter-modal terminal ?
Will you need an engine terminal?
If you want to use the yard as a staging yard (ie to hold whole trains waiting to make their run later), how many and how long trains do you need room for?
And so on and so forth. Understanding what you are trying to achieve might make it easier to offer relevant advice.
Smile,
Stein
Thanks for all the reply’s guys appreciate the help. What I am trying to accomplish is a yard that is close to where I grew up that is now owned by CSX. Now obviously trying to put most of what is in the real yard to my layout is becoming somewhat difficult. The yard that is there has the one main line that is totally unblocked to allow passing trains to go by and then what I would call the second main feeds into the yard itself. This can be used for putting trains together etc. I am just trying to fit to much into the yard. I have even made it 36" from the 30" I intended it to be. It does make it hard because of the turns on the ends but I like the view of the yard having ends on them.
I did have to move the engine house from where the real one is vs where it is on my layout and I wanted a small inter model yard but didnt have the space in other parts of the layout. The yard is the toughest part of my layout. All other sidings are dead ends and wont be like this.
I have modified it from the pics that I have above. Someone on another board helped me finish it that has the full version of AnyRail. Kuddo’s to him. As far as $$, most of this was purchased as Christmas presents, so not much $$$ out of my pocket. Although that will change. LOL
What I plan to do with the yard, I plan on doing a little switching, small train building and just train watching. This is to get my 2 sons involved who love to watch trains. I know the yard isnt perfect or maybe what some may want but it is as close as I can get to the yard I am trying to accomplish. I will also look into getting the books mentioned and see if I can come up with something better.
Brad
Okay, so the main design goal for your layout seems to be :
Make one biggish yard, which in track configuration should look as similar as possible to some specific (but as yet not identified) yard from your childhood.
So when you ask for design help, you are not really asking for help to designing “a yard”.
You are seemingly asking for advice or suggestions on how to do selectively compress a specific prototype yard, so it can fit into your layout room**.**
It would probably be easier to offer suggestions about that if we know what specific yard you were trying to model, and if you had some links to pictures or diagrams showing the prototype yard you want to model.
Smile,
Stein
I guess I should have titled my thread: What do you think of my yard, will it work? My bad I guess. I am wanting it to work but I know somethings in real life just cant be modeled. I did get more space, now I am up to 20’ wide.
Brad
AH, Double ended. Now I see. I call this a stack of sidings. I still stick with the thought that to save space and make the yard tracks longer it should be a compound ladder on both ends. The other two options are to make a funky spiral type ladder through the curve on wither end, or used curved turnouts. Either of those would all the maximum space to the yard track length. It also means some of the yard track would be curved.
The new design does have a few curved turnouts so it allows the double ended yard start a little earlier in the curve so it can start the sidings a little earlier and a little steeper so to say. Had a gentleman do it on AnyRail for me and it works in the software at 18’ but I am allowed 2 more feet for a total of 20’ wide. Even at 18’ my shortest siding in the yard was still 8 ft. Enough for roughly 9-10 cars. The way it works I can have a total of 65 cars in the siding at any one time. That should be plenty for me.
The Shinohara curved turnouts are going to work great for this.
hi Brad
it would be nice if you could share “your” new design. But you are not giving information easily.
I decided not to draw anything for you for various reasons. You showed us your design in any-rail, with #2 switches, pretty tight radii and 3,6" spacing. All issues that should have been discussed before drawing anything. Just like knowing all things you want to incorporate in your design. Add to it the footprint, reach-in problems and all other stuff Stein mentioned.(such as train length and kind of equipment)
If you had read the posting of Byron Henderson about cad to soon and even designing to soon, before you made clear what you want to achieve, chances are your layout will turn out to be fit for the dustbin.
And before spending 1000’s of money on stuff, why should the creators of a CAD-program work for free?
You found out space restrictions are making a copy of real track plan impossible. The question is what can be compressed and what can be left out. Without sufficient information you can’t expect serious help; if some one else can do it without, he is not really helping.
wish you the best
Paul
Brad,
If you are up to 20 feet for that double ended yard, you are in pretty good shape, and you will be able to store a lot of cars even on the shortest track.
One thing to consider is that if you are using #4 turnouts to form the ladder, why not just use #4 turnouts to enter and exit the yard as well. That will add a little more space, albeit a little, There is no reason to begin and end with #6 turnouts if the rest of the yard is made up of #4 turnouts.
Lance had a great suggestion regarding the book by Kalmbach - - “The Model Railroaders Guide To Freight Yards” by Andy Sperandeo. It’s a great reference that I use all of the time as well. Somewhere in the book is a set of illustrations for designing different ladders including the pinwheel and the compund ladder. As for the compound ladder, the book explains and illustrates the use of small curved pieces of track between the turnouts to greatly expand usable space within the yard. You should get this book ASAP.
Rich
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Rich
Thanks for the reply. I did think about using all #4’s but wanted to makes sure my 6 axle loco’s didnt derail coming into the yard. They have a straight shot into the engine house with the #4’s so I dont think that will be a problem.
The newer design is coming along nicely and hopefully have it done shortly. I did add a few curved turnouts which helped alot and although it doesnt look like the yard I am trying to model it is close. Yea adding that 2’ helped out. Actually making the radius into the yard from 22" to 24" so that will help out more also. I called the LHS and they were out of that book so I will have to order it online.
My yard will be used more for storage of cars more than anything. I will be doing some switching with in the yard and building small trains. I am free lance modeling the CSX here in Illiniois. So my theme of the layout is Agriculture. Going to have a couple of grain elevators, ehtanol plant, fertilizer plant, small town, 2-lane roads, etc. I threw in the intermodel yard because I take my wife to Chicago every now and then to her eye doctor and we pass a UP yard that has a intermodel yard right next to the main yard, so that is the reason for that but I may have room somewhere else for it.
It is coming along nicely. Bench work hopefully starts this weekend.
Brad
hi Brad; been following this thread ,please post your final plan as Id like to see it, and maybe give a reveiw of your experiance with any rail software, as I did try the free down load and like much of it ,mostly the way you could shape the flex track ,much easier for me than atlas 10 . but with all the money invested in this I was a little hesitant to buy it ,now Im rethinking after struggiling with atlas 10 ,but it is free… .let us know Jerry
Brad,
I assume from that reply that those 6 axle diesels leave the mainline for the yard on #6 turnouts but do not enter the ladder tracks via the #4 turnouts. Is that correct?
If that is the case, you might consider odave’s suggestion to install a dedicated switching lead just before the ladder tracks to accomodate long freights without blocking the main line. You could use #6 turnouts to construct the switching lead. That way, your 6 axle diesels don’t have to go all around the yard on that shortest track to exit the yard.
Rich
Rich
I have what I would call 2 main lines. The furthest outer track is the first main line for any passing train to get through. The second inner one I would call a 2nd main line but could be blocked in need be. I do see what you are saying though. And yes as of now I dont plan on having my 6 axle loco’s going off of the #4 turnouts into the yard just to pass through to the diesel house.
I am starting to think that I should start over with this and come up with something else. Although I do like how it is but is it really accessible as a yard should be? I guess that is the question. I assumed that if the real deal kinda looked like this then it should be ok but the more I study it maybe it should be changed. I do like the double ended yard but maybe I should switch to something else. Wish my LHS carried any books on yard layouts.
I have something similar. My layout is a double mainline with a yard as well. In the diagram that follows, red and blue are the main lines. Green is the switching lead. The orange tracks are the storage tracks and the black track is my ladder with a “runaround” track for switchers.
If I were you, I would not start over. Stick with the double end yard, just consider adding the switching lead for added flexibility.
You will love that Kalmbach book on freight yards. Lots of drawings and lots of good ideas.
Rich
Thanks Rich
I just like the double ended yard as well. I am still working on it in AnyRail to make it better. Having an additional 2’ in width helps and I have since moved my #6 turnouts that start the “Second Main” down has allowed me to have 24" radius on the #1 main line and somewhere between 22 and 23 with the 2nd main line. Some of that will be flex track.
Finding the Shinohara curved turnouts helps out alot. I am using #6’s to enter the first stage of the yard and allows me more of what I am trying to do. I have my alert radius set at 22* so nothing is smaller than that. Should work out ok. Also moving some stuff on the layout to make it better also.
Brad
If you are talking about the Shinohara Code 100 #6 curved turnout, the effective inner radius is probably closer to 19-20", signficantly shaper than your other curves. Most CAD programs only flag the curves you draw, not the internal curves of the turnouts.
Why not just buy the Sperandeo book from Amazon or Kalmbach directly?
Byron
hi Brad
look at this yard:
Important are the drill track and the separate connection of the arrival and departure tracks in comparison to the classification and storage tracks.
Paul
dont know about Brad,but I like it .afew small changes and that would fill my needs nicely…and its very helpful how you labeled each track and kept it simple ,I have all the books mentioned and still have trouble understanding it all,but this is good it makes total since to me,nice job! Jerry