Help! I'm too big for my britches!

Classic Toy Trains Forum
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I’ve been “playing trains” for about five years now, but I rarely do anything that cool–just the original loop that came with my set and maybe an add-on here and there. Well, this year I got snazzy and bought tons of track and built an enormous layout for my train in my den. It is a mammoth oblong/square circle that fills the whole room and has an interior loop, and another small loop off one side that is almost a full oval but ends with the “Track Gang” accessory working on the track. It is so big that I used the graduated and elevated trestle set and it only took up about half of the track even though each trestle is spaced 10 inches apart. I’ve got the truss bridge and girder bridges, and I’ve got both manual and remote switches and a crossover. I mean it’s really cool. I think I got too big for my britches!!!

In fact, it’s so cool that my train won’t run even when I disconnect all of the accessories. I mean it will run the locomotive and the tender and one other car, but it stalls out if you add 2 or 3 cars to it and then the transformer starts flashing. My Berkshire locomotive was literally smoking (not from the puffing “steam”, either!) going up hill. If I just put the train on the track with all the cars (I have 8 lighted cars and 2 non-lighted cars,plus the loco and tender), it doesn’t even have enough power to just light them all up sitting there.

I’m using fastrack and the standard CW-80 that came with my Polar Express set. I thought I might need to add another transformer, but someone I know said enough power is not my problem…they said my problem has to do with resistance and that I just needed to connect another piece of track with wires on it to my transformer. To me, that is just hooking up the same amount of power to the same track, but they said if I just hook more wires on the same track to my transformer it will work because there will be less resista

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Sounds like you do not have multiple power hook-ups to your track. You should have power running to a large layout every 15 feet or so to prevent power drop-off. Also the CW-80 was never designed for a layout the size that you have described. The CW-80 has had more negative threads posted than probably any other train transformer and most as a result of trying to do more with it than it was designed for.

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From your description, it sounds like you are seriously underpowered. Your CW 80 is enough for your oval and lighted cars but that’s about it.

For now stay with your oeiginal oval until you can get yourself a much bigger transformer.

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Bill,

Thanks so much for your help! I just wanted to clarify–every 15 feet do I need another transformer? Or do you mean that I need to just run some more wires to the terminals on the bottom of the track? I guess I’m asking how do I get power to the track? Thanks for your help! I certainly don’t want to ruin my transformer. This is a brand new CW-80–my old one stopped working last year even though I was just running it with the standard oval and a few accessories.

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Sounds like too many lighted cars for the CW-80. Also I have used Fastrac in the past year and sold it because it had worse problems than my 031 track ever gave me. Fastrac needs additional power feeds almost as often as tubular 031 track does, which I have found to be every fourth secction of track. Try to buy a ZW transformer and you should have all the power you need for your layout, even power for future growth.

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If you run your Berkshire when it is smoking, you are going to destroy the motor. Have you lubed all the cars and the engine?

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The amount of power needed to run trains really depends on the trains and not on the size of the layout. Folks often confuse power with voltage in this regard.

It is true that, if there is too much track between your train and the transformer, so that you need to increase the voltage to get enough current through the track resistance and through the train, then you will be using more power. This happens because the power is the product of the voltage and the current. The current is the same as on a small layout; but the voltage is higher. A tranditional transformer would simply put out more voltage–and consequently, power–since its circuit breaker senses only the current, which remains the same. Until you reached the upper limit of the voltage control, you could still run the train. But, I suspect, the CW-80 senses both current and voltage in deciding whether to shut down to protect itself. This would explain how you might not be able to run a train on your large layout that you could run before on a small one.

The best way to fix this situation is, as others have already suggested, to connect your transformer to the track at multiple points around the layout. The idea is to bypass the relatively high resistance of the rails with copper wire heavy enough that the voltage on the track is not much different from the voltage at the CW-80 “transformer”, or any other, real transformer that you might use.

You don’t have to run a separate pair of wires to each attachment point. You can simply go from the transformer to the closest point, then from there to the next, and so on, following a path that minimizes the amount of wire needed, which happily also minimizes the resistance between train and transformer.

You must use wire heavy enough to overwhelm the conductance of the track for it to do any good. This might be, at a minimum, 14 AWG, although 12 or 10 AWG would be even better. You can get suitable wire in various

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You will need a separate power supply in order to operate the switches and accessories.

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Maybe he will; but will you explain why you think so?

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Ok, let me see, the stated amps for a 80 watt CW is 5 . That’s stated, but who knows if that’s what you would actually get. That may be enough for a simple oval and a few trains but when you add track you do add resistance that takes away from operating power.

Adding feeders along the layout helps but you are again adding resistance. If a small gauge wire is used the resistance added is high, if a larger gauge wire is used, the resistance is lesser but still takes away from the available operating power.

In the original post it is not stated how many remote switches were added so I will assume there is at least one pair. In each switch is an indicator lamp that will be a constant draw on the power, then if you add the controller, there is a lamp in each controller that will be a constant draw. Even tho these bulbs are LEDs and require a small amount of power, they are still taking power, whether you use track power or the accessory power. Anything attached to the accessory posts will take away from the overall available operating power.

And then there is the controller cable. Depending on how far away the switch is from the transformer will determine the length of wire needed, adding even more resistance.

Addiing extra cars increases the weight the locomotive must pull, increasing the loco’s workload which increases the power requirements. And then if those cars are lighted, even more of a power drain.

Then there is the incline, requiring more power for the locomotive to pull the train to the top.

It is not stated what or how many operating accessories were added, but if they require power then there is a least a light and wiring, and depending on wire gauge and length as well as lamp type, will determine but still add to the power demand.

And then there is the extra loop ending in with a power accessory, adding to the power demand.

Couple that with the spotty history of the CW 80 would in my mind, warrant another power

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Yeah, I was afraid of that. Thanks for all of your help. If I get a better transformer, would I still need to worry about connecting it to the track more than once, or can I get by with just hooking it in one place since the ZW is capable of running like 4 trains at once and it has so much power? Every ZW I see for sale is used–and someone I saw selling transformers when I looked into buying a better transformer last year said they need to be heavily modified to be compatible with fastrack. I am just worried about spending so much money on something that I can’t buy brand new from Lionel. :frowning:

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Feeders in parallel with the track add conductance to the circuit, not resistance. They reduce the overall resistance, no matter how small they are–not that one should use small wire.

The length of the control wires for the turnouts will not increase the power that the turnouts require. If anything, they will reduce it. If they reduce it to the point that the turnouts stop working (which I doubt), those wires can be beefed up just like the feeders.

As I said, the CW-80 may not be big enough when all his accessories are connected. But, with adequate feeders, the train will use no more power than if it were on a small loop. I think the best thing to do is to fix the feeder situation, then see how it all works.

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Yeah BPMAMMY.

Give it up and get a real transformer like I had to. The CW80 is good for a small layout and the protection needed for some of the newer trains but you can get aroung those issues with not much troubble. I am doing ok with a RW but am looking for something even bigger. You can always use the CW for a small loop of a ACC curcuit. I use my CW for a small loop in the logging campsite on the layout.

Kev