I’ve begun a retirement HO layout. My copies of the various reference books are literally falling apart from the number of times I’ve read through them, and I like to think that it will pay off in my design. But I still have trouble with yards. Unless it’s an article that actually shows a series of pictures with little icons of engines and freight cars being moved one step at a time (Thanks, David Popp!), I look at these wonderful yard plans and–even though I grasp the concept of the drill track, the need for a runaround, etc.–they’re just a bunch of lines to me.
I am not inclined to learn by way of a software program, partly because I want to get started. May I just ask for your help? I’m building a small branchline running short-wheelbase equipment (1930s) that terminates at a stub-ended yard with a small servicing facility that will allow me to run a daily “turn.” I need to include a yard lead/drill track and runaround, an A/D track, two or three classification tracks–these seem the minimum for realism. I’d like to have a caboose track, a RIP track, and perhaps an icing dock and scale track as well. I have about ten feet of straight space available.
Paul Dolkos’s Woodsriver Yard articles and photos have been the most useful to me, but if I had to draw and label his tracks, I couldn’t do it. My brain can’t seem to make the connection between drawing and reality, and between still photographs and actual movement of cars.
You don’t have to draw it for me (unless you want to). But can you offer any tips, or suggest any dangers, to help me just bring in a few cars every day and take a few out, mostly from local industries but also some to and from through freights that go to hidden staging? And can you suggest a standard sequence of steps (Uncouple engine, which goes to turntable; uncouple caboose, which goes to caboose track; have yard switcher pull consist onto drill
If it’s a small one-train-per-day branch, where do the through freights come from and go to?
I’m a big fan of yard leads for most model railroad situations, but if it’s truly a one-train-per-day branch, you probably don’t need one. They’d just use the branch track, since there are, by definition, no other trains. Also, there wouldn’t typically be a dedicated switch engine at a branch terminal that sees only one train per day – the road crew would do the work with their engine (unless there was a large industrial complex there, for example).
Likewise, you don’t need a dedicated caboose track if there’s only one caboose and it comes and goes with the branch line train. But maybe I don’t understand well what you want the yard to do.
You might receive more useful help if you post a sketch of the overall track plan as you conceive it at this point – even if there’s just a blank space labelled “yard goes here”.
The arrangement and operation of a yard depends greatly on the rest of the layout it serves, so without that information it can be a little difficult to give helpful advice.
You might also want to refer back to an earlier thread on yards in which you participated – some of your questions might be answered there. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/200156.aspx
This is a view of my seven track stub ended yard, with caboose track, and other features for a transition era layout. It has two lengthy drill tracks that diverge, with double slip switches and crossovers to serve each of the seven tracks. Note the overhead loop of the mainline. Bob Hahn The second photo shows the extension of the two drill tracks. I hope that this will be of some help in you building a stub ended yard.
Thanks so much for the information and the reminder about my earlier, related, inquiry (a lot has happened in the interim to make me forget about that). Now for a really basic question that I’ve been unable to find an answer for using the search function here: If I’m to submit a track plan to help frame my questions, then 1) how do I make it–i.e., is there a standard software program that people use, and 2) how do I upload the resulting drawing–format, size limitations, etc. Sorry to be so unaware of such fundamental stuff.
There are many ways to draw a layout so that it can be reviewed here. If you have access to a scanner, a hand-drawn track plan may be scanned and converted to file type such as .jpg. Or you can use one of the CAD programs, but they all have fairly steep learning curves. Once you have your plan in a standard file type, folks here can walk you through the process of posting the file and then linking it here.
How were you planning to draw it in order to build it?
There are a few programs for track planning and design. I’ve used/tried XTrkCAD and AnyRail and the Atlas RTS. Each has a function to “export” the design as an image. Once you have the image saved on your hard drive, you’ll have to use a third party site to host it. I use Photobucket. An account is free. Once you’ve uploaded your images, you copy the “image” tag and paste it in your post. The forum software will automatically resize it for you. Be sure to copy the image tag, and not the “thumbnail” tag.
Thanks to all of you for your patient and helpful replies. I’m planning to make a biggish hand drawing at three inches to the foot; as I’ve suggested before, I have trouble making my brain convert two dimensions to three, small to large, color to B&W, etc. (One of the nice things about this comes when I build scenery: I get a section done and say "So THAT’s what that looks like).
I have an old copy of CADRail that I used for my previous (N) layout. I may crank it up and hope that I recall enough to shorten the learning curve a bit. In the end it may be more useful than a big paper drawing anyhow, what with its turnout templates and easements and so on.
In any case, thanks again for all the tips and advice. I hope to get something done in the next few months.
Your’e planned operations are similar to mine, I reached the conclusion that no yard beyond stagging was required, my prototype accessed its mainline connection by by means of a wye with a single siding, one leg provides access to stagging, the second serves as a 16 foot switching lead and the final leg serves as the branchline connection. Per my prototype, locals orginated at a modest yard 6 miles to the east(stagging) no through switching was involved and the nature of the traffic ensured all trains were assembled into blocks for expedited movement to Taylor Yard in Los Angeles.
I had the same issue with yards for several years. THEN I joined a club in 1984. The members did round robin to their various layouts while the club layout was being built. I got to be the assistant yard master and actually work trains coming in and going out. After doing that it is so much easier to “see” the good and bad points of a yard drawn on paper. I guess that is the difference between theoretical (book knowledge) and practical (hands on) experience. Both vital but they work together.
So since you don’t want to practice with software, I might suggest just getting a bunch of sectional track. Temporarily lay out an experimental yard in your 10 feet of space. Try it out by actually running trains. Note what works and what doesn’t. After running several scenarios take that track up and try another arrangement. I am guessing it won’t be long before you start recognizing patterns that work and ones that don’t. Then you can layout a final design and run it and tweek it a bit before committing the track permanently to the bench-work.
Below is a schematic drawing of my RR. If you look for Brunswick MD, you will see my yard. It is a three track yard. Starting at the upper middle is the mainline, below that is the AD track. The AD track extends to the right and becomes the yard lead or drill track. The two crossings below that and to the left of the turntable are actually double slip switches. My yard is double ended, but you could make this single ended, ending at the left end. The two tail tracks in the yard to the left could be used for two more yard tracks or anything else, if the yard is double ended. I use them for yard tracks.
Now, not to confuse the issue, but this yard started at as single ended at the right end, which meant that the AD track access to the switching lead was at the left, and was the track going to the coal dock. Again, the crossing on the left part of the yard is a double slip switch. No loco facilities were in place for that design. When I got a little more space, I changed the yard lead to the right side and added loco facilities.
I don’t have a RIP track. I do have a caboose track which is the lower track to the left of the turntable. The distance from the double slips to the turntable is about five cars long so I can have access to the two sidings on the left (the lower being the caboose track and the upper being caboose service delivery). The lower track going to the TT is the loco service track and the one above it is the service/supply delivery track for the loco facility.
Now, after you design the yard, how you operate it makes a difference too. The way my yard operates is as follows:
When getting a train ready for departure, the yard loco pulls the
it is hard to give advice without knowing your plans in more detail. It is even more difficult to explain issues if you have problems envisioning their meaning.
IMHO Cuyama was to the point. A rather busy mainline, as on most model railroads since no-one likes to wait for an hour before the next train arrives, is quite different from a one train a day operation on a branchline. You do not need dedicated arrival and deparure tracks nor a yard lead. You probably do not need a classification yard either.
To be honest semantics can play a role. In a classification yard different trains are built often for different destinations. A slow coal-drag for NY, a fast fruit express for NJ, a general merchandise train with average speeds for Cranton or wayfreights who will serve industries along the line.
Cars in a certain train are often blocked or placed in a certain order. Often cars for the first industry or town along the line directly behind the engine, then the cars for the next town and so forth.
When you are building a smaller terminal as the end of the line, while trains arrive from and go to a staging area you will face a few issues, especially with steam engines. You will have to uncouple the engine from the train, service the engine and turn it before it is ready for the way back. Beside spotting and picking up cars. When you have some stations or industries between the terminal and staging blocking your train might be needed.
The runaround move, getting the caboose to the other end and turning the engine has to be done both in your terminal and in staging. The latter can be done using your 0-5-0 (hands) or by shoving your train back to the other terminal, where all moves can be made before shoving your train back to the staging tracks.
Anyway all you really need for a small terminal is one run-around track, a couple of spurs leading to industries, the freighthouse/depot and the engine service track.
Also, real railroads, both big mainlines and short branchlines, tended to get by with as little track as possible. Basically, if it wasn’t essential in some way, then it wasn’t built. I’m modeling a shortline that folded in the 30’s, but as it might have appeared in 1957. Around the middle, it had a junction where another “branch” split off, but I doubt there was more than 3 or 4 tracks in that “town” (I need to do research to confirm this). It was only 15-20 miles from the mainline; they didn’t need many. I expect at the end, there was perhaps a runaround, a small yard, maybe enough for a couple dozen cars, maybe 3 tracks. I doubt there was a dedicated caboose track, arrival/departure tracks, or yard leads. It was a lightly trafficked line, they didn’t need these, they could (and did) simply use the “main” to switch the yards and industries. They did not have to clear the track for another train to pass them. If there were any engine service facilities, they would have been minimal at best. There was no roundhouse, I’m unsure if there was even a turntable. Chances are, they had a wye, if anything. There probably wasn’t a coaling tower, if they even had any refueling facilities at all, it was likely a long spur, running uphill, to a “dock”, which was about tender-deck height, and the coal hoppers would be about 5 feet above this “dock”. Not sure if there was an ash pit, since this was a line that had maybe 3 locomotives on the roster, they hardly needed the capacity to service dozens in a day. There probably was a couple water towers along the line.
The second photo shows the extension of the two drill tracks. I hope that this will be of some help in you building a stub ended yard.