I’m hoping someone can help me with a track wiring problem. I’ve got my layout at a stage where I can start testing the track plan with some engines. The layout is a 12’x16’ wrap-around. I’ve pulled 14 AGU wire for the bus and have soldered a few 22 AGU feeders to the track (feeders aren’t connected to bus just yet – I’ve been testing the track using alligator clips to connect my Zephry xtra to the rail/feeders). The problem is after an engine runs for a few minutes, the rail starts to heat up. This happens at random joiners and turnouts? I’ve tried to research the problem online to no avail.
I recently had some hardware problems with the Zephyr Xtra shutting down after a few minutes of operation and track heating up. I sent it in to Digitrax for repair; they gave it a clean bill of health and sent it back with a new power supply. This seemed to solve the problem for a few weeks, but now my track’s heating up again.
I’m hoping it’s just a bonehead mistake I’m making and not a problem requiring a new command station. Can anyone point me in the right direction to fix the problem?
Heat is a result of resistance. It isn’t your Zephyr Xtra. If the DCS51 wasn’t putting out current there would be no heat generated at the track. The trouble is in your joints and lack of feeders. Add those feeders. Solder the joiners. and clean the contact points up on those switches. Most important, connect the feeders to your bus. That will allow the bus to carry the current instead of depending on it passing through high resistance track joiners and rail.
Take it a step at a time: connect those feeders first. If that doesn’t solve your problem, then do the joiners. The only joiners I soldered are on curves, and I have no heat or power problems. Of course, I used Walthers/Shinohara joiners on their Code 83 track and turnouts: the joiners are a very snug fit. I also treated each connection with No-Ox before joining.
Solder in the feeders first, as that is the most likely fix. Soldering the joints on the curves is always an excellent idea, where as soldering tangent track is more of an option (in my opinion of course).
I urge you NOT to minimize feeders - especially if you are using DCC. Having feeders every 4-5 feet, and at least one on every siding is an excellent practice - whether DC or DCC.
To encourage this I have to say… In my 10 years of monitoring this forum, I have NEVER seen/heard of someone complaining they had too many feeders. However, a shortage of them has been the root of many, many problems.
I think the feeders are one problem, particularly if you’re trying to drive a decent-sized layout from a few alligator clips, but I also think you may have a short somewhere. Does the track heat up and the Zephyr sometimes trip when there are no engines on the layout? How about with no rolling stock?
In a normal short, there is a direct, low-resistance path from one side to the other. More current can flow than the system is designed to handle, and the circuit breaker will trip. However, if you don’t provide enough feeders, or you depend on rail joiners for power transmission from one section of track to another, the weak connections and long track runs provide a lot of resistance, and this limits the amount of current and prevents the breaker from tripping. But, you are still drawing a lot of current, and that’s why the track heats up. Nickel-sliver rail is less conductive than copper wire, which is one reason we use a track bus for efficient power transmission.
We sometimes do something called the “quarter test.” With your layout powered up, take an ordinary 25-cent piece and place it right across the track. The circuit breaker should trip, as you’ve created a dead short. Do this all over your layout, particulary far away from the power source, and make sure that the breaker trips everywhere. If it doesn’t, add feeders until it does.
Once you get all your feeders in, if the breaker keeps coming on, you’ve got either crossed wires or perhaps a reverse loop in your track plan that’s not accounted for in the wiring. I hope adding feeders does the job for you, but if not you will have to find that short.
Mr. Beasley brings up some good points. While its likely your problem is from lack of feeders and poor connections, I would not be surprised if there was another factor in the mix.
This is brilliant! I’ve been looking for a way to heat up the train room. Now it’s obvious, all I need to do is replace my rail with Nichrome wire and plug 'er in! Should keep the grease in the old Athearn GP-7/9 from stiffening up right nice. Gonna need a box with more amps than the Tech IV…Hmmmmm, I’ve got an old Lincoln welder out back…
Misterbeasly and Mobileman44 have given you good suggestions to follow. I too believe there may be another factor causing a short that the system is unable to detect due to the existing lack of permanent wiring.
First thing I would do is to remove all locos and rolling stock from the layout, check all track for a piece of metal, a screw, a tool or something causing a short across the rails. Power up the track and see if it heats up. Do the quater test as suggested and like it was mentioned before keep adding feeders until the system isnstantly shuts down when shorted out.
I have a 14 ga. buss and feeders every 3 feet approximately, I do not depend on an unsoldered track connector to carry current from one piece of track to the next.
Once wiring is complete test run the layout, that short could be inside a loco, but with new wiring in place the system will instantly trip once a bad loco is placed on the rails.
Richhotrain, I agree, that is why I think there must be a short that is going undetected. Why would the short be undetected? due to inadequate wiring. The OP says he is using alligator clips to power the rails temporarily.
What, if anything, have you found out since we last heard from you?
Besides the issue of insufficient feeder wires and possible shorts somewhere on the layout, I continue to wonder about that repaired DCC command station. What was the problem in the first place, what caused it, and did it in fact get repaired?
The symptoms he described are consistent with a short combined with insufficient feeders. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the Zephyr at all.
I would be curious to know what an ohm meter would show for resistance if he disconnected the DCC supply and removed all locos?
Over the past few years I have read of a few people who lay track and never do any kind of resistance check in case somewhere down the line, they create a short.
It is very easy to make a short detector with a Radio Shack buzzer and a nine volt battery if he does not have a meter.
Had a word with an electronics mate who is into 7¼” but still on the same page model-wise, so to speak and he said this don’t sound like a feed problem, sounds like a crossed feed or some kind of closed circuit with quite a bit of resistance to cause rails to heat up.
If the 12x16ft can be split into blocks or boards I’d go round with a meter first running down each rail to see if continuity jumps to the other rail, I’ve had that problem.
If you have a DC power pack handy and you can put a 12v lamp in line with 1 of the lines, put the clips on and walk it down the track from above. If the light comes on you have a fault, if the breaker goes you have a short.
One thought, are any switch machines wired up yet.