I have a set of five Rivarossi (but package by Bachman) four wheel truck streamline N&W passenger cars from several years ago. But I understand from a fellow modler that this problem also applies to IHC four wheel streamline passenger cars.
The problem is the cars do not stay on the track and derail very frequently.
We have weighted the cars to NMRA standards and replaced the couplers with Kadee 508 couplers to no avail. We have also replaced all wheels with Life-Like 33" wheels My next step is to mount standard Kadde couplers to the car body.
Passenger cars from other manufacturers do stay on the track
If you had this same problem, how did you solve the problem? Have you completely replaced the truck?
Thanks to all for your assistance.
there could be a number of problems. You don’t say if the other cars are scale length or not or if they derail at will or in the same place. Ess curves on model railroads become a problem with scale length cars. I doubt you can put them through a pair of #4 turnouts in a crossover move. you also can’t go from a righthand curve immediately into a lefthand curve or vice versa unless it is extremely broad (say 36" radius or larger). Reason being one car wants to skew the coupler in one direction and the other wants to skew in the other direction. Rule of thumb is a straight section at least equal to your longest car between curves. You can minimize this effect by using body mounted couplers. If your train is not going to be switched you might want to consider draw bars between the cars. One end screwed to the where the draft gear would be on the body and the other end just having a screw with the head cut or ground off. Seems a waste of resources to use Kadees where they won’t be used or seen. Just put them on the ends so you can change engines. IHC, AHM, Rivarossi cars are very light and could also use some weight added to the NMRA standards. In a long train this can also cause problems with cars tipping over on. The single most important factor to my way of thinking is curves of at least 30" radius. When they came out in the late 60’s that was the reccomendation of MR and everyone else. If you are running them on anything smaller you are going to have problems with them and autoracks and 86’ box cars unless everything trackwise and support wise is perfect. It is really pushing the envelope. now I know some people are going to say I run X number of casr on 18" radius at full speed in HO and don’t have a problem but I will bet the vast majority will say they do. The other thing is to check the flange depth and make sure you don;t have the old deep flanges unless you
Sounds like you did everything right. Do they all do it? Do they do it all over the layout or just in a certain spot?
I have a small fleet of 4 and 6 wheel Riv and a few IHC passenger cars with the KD conversions, and some have 33" IM metal wheels, and some still have the originals, and I bet none are actually weighted to NMRA specs, and they all run fine. Must be a track issue.
And, before the “you must body mount all couplers” brigade jumps in, I test all my trackwork by running a 7 or 8 car train of these backwards thru it. Yeah, #4 switches are a slow speed proposition.
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REPLACE both trucks. ($25 pr). Look for when ‘On Sale’.
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BRING up to other NMRA specs (weight/coupler height/etc.) I like body mounted KD #38’s or 36’s. The newer (long) ‘Whisker’ coupler may be worth a try, but that keeps cruddy (Talgo) trucks.
IHC’s metal trucks not only ROLL superbly, but also lower the center of gravity (unsprung weight). That improves tracking,
Rivarossi’s passenger cars are superior to IHC’s Chinese imitations, but only Rivarossi’s 3 axled trucks need the offset adapter. (IHC has).
Hmmmm, I’ve never heard of Bachmann packaging Rivarossi equipment. Is this something new?
The only way I have made these cars perform totally acceptablely is to completely rework them. I change the truck, which means reworking the bolster. I really like the metal IHC aftermarket trucks. They roll well and add weight. I used to buy the IHC bolster kits, but discovered that I could make my own with 1/8" styrene tubing. For the couplers I tried the JayBee coupler body mouting kits, but once again discovered it was easy to make my own with a couple sheets of styrene glued directly to the car. I use Kadee #46, #36, or #9 couplers putting the pivot point as far into the car as possible. Be careful doing these things will greatly increase the minimum radius a car can go around (to about 32").
You mentioned adding extra weight. Make certain the weight is as low as possible to lower the center of gravity. Make certain it is balanced left to right and front to back. Another reason the metal trucks help so much.
Also before any major modifications have you checked to be certain the trucks have a little sideways (pitch and roll axis) play? If even one of the trucks are too stiff on their pin they will cause the car to derail frequently.
Having said all that. Quite a while ago I purchased a new Walthers at list price. I purchased a cheap Rivarossi and bought all the parts, did all the work to fix it up. After I got done I compared the total price. It was the same dollars but the one took a whole lot more
[quote user=“Gandy Dancer”]
Hmmmm, I’ve never heard of Bachmann packaging Rivarossi equipment. Is this something new?
The only way I have made these cars perform totally acceptablely is to completely rework them. I change the truck, which means reworking the bolster. I really like the metal IHC aftermarket trucks. They roll well and add weight. I used to buy the IHC bolster kits, but discovered that I could make my own with 1/8" styrene tubing. For the couplers I tried the JayBee coupler body mouting kits, but once again discovered it was easy to make my own with a couple sheets of styrene glued directly to the car. I use Kadee #46, #36, or #9 couplers putting the pivot point as far into the car as possible. Be careful doing these things will greatly increase the minimum radius a car can go around (to about 32").
You mentioned adding extra weight. Make certain the weight is as low as possible to lower the center of gravity. Make certain it is balanced left to right and front to back. Another reason the metal trucks help so much.
Also before any major modifications have you checked to be certain the trucks have a little sideways (pitch and roll axis) play? If even one of the trucks are too stiff on their pin they will cause the car to derail frequently.
Having said all that. Quite a while ago I purchased a new Walthers at list price. I purchased a cheap Rivarossi and bought all the parts, did all the work to fix it up. After I got done I compared the total price. It was the same dollars but the
I have a set of IHC corrugated side streamliners which stay on the track. Here’s what I did to the cars.
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Body mount #5 Kadee couplers.
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Weighted up to NMRA recommendations, 7 oz. Sheet lead under the floors.
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IHC Metal wheels, checked wheel gage on every pair of wheels.
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Interior kits for looks
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Lighting kits with home made axle wipers.
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Check coupler height against Kadee coupler gauge.
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Replace snap in plastic truck retaining pins with 6-32 pan head machine screws. Screw itself cut threads into the plastic.
You want to make sure your trackwork is impeccable. These are LONG cars and they need better trackwork than 40 foot boxcars do. Any kinks between track pieces, any out of guage track, rough turnouts, sharp curves and S curves are trouble. I can get mine around 18" curves but that is pushing it. Make sure your 18 inch curves are at least 18 inches. You want a long locomotive like an E unit lest a short locomotive (or tender) pull the long car off the track on curves.