I work for a company that is doing field operations near Creston Junction right on the UPRR right of way between Rawlins and Rock Springs Wyoming. I have been tasked with locating and protecting the original 1868 UPRR right of way during our project. I have contacted the current UPRR and they are working to help us out but locating exactly the right of way is difficult due to the mapping available in 1868. So far we have not really made any progress on finding a map or description.
I have shot 1 ft pixel air photos and lidar data and can easily see several options for the right of way grade. I have been on the ground and found some of the grade but obviously the current UPRR grade is significantly south of the old 1868 grade. Looking at my airphotos it appears that between 1868 and 1915 they changed the grade at least 3 times. It looks like they straightened it around 1880, again in about 1890 to 1900 and then again after 1915 which was a major movement toward the south. This is based upon how the line appears to be straightened at each step and smoothing out some of the turns.
I admit that I am a long time railfan but I am no expert on the UPRR. So far I have found some obviously old spikes, some tie plates of a very different design then “modern” ones. Since it is an archaeological site I have not disturbed things but they are there. This area is really remote so it is likely that little cleanup has been done to the site.
The Federal Government is the one telling me to protect this right of way but at the same time they are telling me they don’t know where it is exactly. It is similar to the Lincoln highway (another thing I am protecting), where folks say it is, is not where it really is, because I have stood on it yesterday. So just because someone says its there, it does not mean it is so.
Hopefully you will have better guidance than from me. If you found tie plates look for foundry marks. Also If I remember correctly from what I read the original alignment was not ballasted and subsequent relocations had varying levels of ballast.
The comments I make about the lack of ballast are from articles about the credit mobilizer scandal and the subsequent congressional hearings. The US Government was subposed to have track inspectors out there to inspect completed right of ways. (I think there was a considerable amount of bribery here) But the track inspection reports should be on file somewhere.
Some of the track inspectors wrote honest reports some where at best (how do I describe this) good fiction. The other place to look is the congressional hearings. I would suspect that those hearings had at least some of the field reports.
I don’t understand how you can spot it on a photomap, but not find it on the ground. If there were anything left to see, it would be cuts and fills, or maybe just the remnants of ditching on either side of the roadbed, if it is in flat terrain where there are no cuts and fills. I am guessing that it might be perfectly evident in some areas, but completely obliterated, or lacking in any earthwork features, in other areas.
If I understand, you are saying that UP does not have the survey data to locate the old right of way. Do they have records of the dates of the line relocations that you mention? Do they have at least rough diagrams of where they were? If you could put together that information and then reconcile it with what you might see here and there on a photomap, you might be able to extend them on the map to make their layout complete. Then you might be able to find the roadbeds approximately on the ground.
If you were able to approximately plot the roadbed on the ground, you might then confirm it with a metal detector. Old roadbeds are usually littered with spikes, track bolts, nuts, washers, and angle bars, plus occasional iron pieces from rolling stock and locomotives. The longer the roa
Bucyrus is probably right about tie plates. The original UP line was built as fast as possible as cheap as possible. What I’ve read on the original line was that it was so bad that derailments were frequent.
Also when line relocations happened it was common(and still is today) to pull up old materials for scrap value. I would go back to my original comment about the lack of ballast being an indication of the original right of way. I remember reading in numerous books that much of the time all that was done was to put track down, gauge it spike it and then get inspectors to certify it as a “completed railroad”
To answer some of the questions, I can see it on the airphotos and stand on the grade on the ground so I can locate a grade. The problem is which one of the 4 alignments is the correct original one.
My hypothesis is that the least developed, most turny less defined is probably the 1868 grade.
The grade that I think is the oldests has few spikes or other trash by it. The 1880 grade has flat tie plates on it. The 1893 (figured that out in the last few hours searching the web) has tie plates with grooves or furrows cut out of it. Odd looking tie plate to be sure. I will also agree that the steel is rare. Given we only get like 7" of rain a year, it is not “that” badly rusted but they are rare to find.
The map linked above shows where I am working, Fillmore to Creston. The problem is there is several loops and a sharp turn right at creston that is not shown.
I suggest you consult the Colorado Railroad Museum, where an enormous collection of historic documentation is preserved. The library there may be able to assist. (I’m an occasional volunteer there, and I’m astonished at the richness of their archive)
Your project to document the original grade sounds extremely interesting. I gather you are not just doing this as an avocation, so I am curious about the basis for this work. For me, that would be a dream job.
My comment about the tie plates is based on a general assumption that the tie plate was developed some considerable time after the original development of the other basic track components. But I had never been inclined to find out exactly when tie plates were developed until now. Wikipedia says it was about 1900.
There are a variety of tie plate designs and sizes that have been produced with the evolution of track materials, so it would not be unusual to find unfamiliar tie plates on older grades. But if the 1900 tie plate inception date is accurate, I would not expect the original grade to contain any tie plates. I also think that it is likely that the original grade, if it was abandoned in 1880, does not contain any imp
THere have been maps prepared in accordance with the ICC Valuation of the RR’s which I am fairly sure are somewhere in the UP archives; however these were also filed with the ICC and are probably in a warehouse in Suirtland, MD. But getting maps from either source in this day when nothing is preserved with details about how to locate it may be difficult. If you can contact a retired UP Engineering Dept. person, preferably retired for 20 or more years, they may give you guidance.
One thing to consider, the ROW width in 1868. Was it 100 feet at this location, 200 feet or varying widths? Usually RR’s marked the original ROW with rails (T Rails) stuck in the ground at locations where width changed from 100-200 or whatever.
Also, the curves were not spiraled in 1868 while they are and have been since ??. So the ROW markers, T Rails, will take you to the track center from which the ROW is, and has always been defined.
One last thought, as the ROW was changed to allow for aligment relocation there may have been deeds recorded which define the additional ROW. These may have their legal description tied to the original alignment, and the date on deeds will give a chronology of the changes.
IF you can define by Mile Posts + feet the limits of your concern you should furnish this info to any UP retired engineer so that research is confined, or by land lines (Section, Range, Township and subdivisions therof).
Perhaps too lengthy, but if you choose to follow-up with questions please do.
This is a great thread but how in the world did it get so wiiiiiiiiiiddddddeeeeee? I read the starter post but it would take me 1/2 hour to read all the replies when I have to arrow left and right for every sentence.
If you want to hire a qualified subconsultant who can provide expert knowledge, I can make recommendations. Are you delivering professional service to your client by using an internet forum as a documentable resource?
First, I’ll presume the original post is unrelated to the date of same . . . [:-^]
Next, I see from your bio info that you’re a geologist/ geophysicist from Houston. My daughter is in the same line of work (hydro-geo, M.S. Geo USF, thesis on quantifying DNAPL conc. via borehole geophysics, patent applied for, etc.) so I have some sense of what you do and don’t know about all this.
From reviewing the previous posts, it’s clear that you’re learning about this as you go along, and picking it up quickly and pretty well as you do - over like only 15 hours ! By now you might have been surprised to learn or figure out that investigating and establishing R-O-W and surveying matters like this can be just like mapping underground rock formations: highly variable - even seemingly random, not well-organized and messy, undocumented, done a lot by inference from individual “snapshots” or points of data instead of a seamless movie, with a lot of “trial-and-error” as each new bit of data leads you in a somehwat different direction, and often - but not always - closer to an answer. Note, though, that there may well be more than 1 correct or supportable answer here. Also, in surveying - unlike many other fields of endeavor - there is no such thing as a margin of safety. All of the land belongs to somebody and has to be accounted for, and any foot that is given to someone “to be on the safe side” is necessarily a foot that someone else is entitled to but not getting.
All that being said, here are a couple of thoughts and suggestions on the techncial side:
It seems you’re dealing with a site that is at most a couple of miles long. That’s good - makes it manageable.
Sometimes a useful way to approach these challenges is from the other side of the coin - or more in context here, from the other side of the property or R-O-W line.
I have read your first post several times, and have gotten several different impressions about what your mission actually is. If I understand correctly, you are concerned with protecting the old ROW within a specific area of property. You say this protection is needed in relation to work being done on the current UP right of way, but I assume the order to protect the old ROW applies to where it exists in locations other than the current UP right of way, probably on federal land. So I assume that your operations on the current UP right of way somehow spill over onto adjoining federal land where the old ROW is thought to exist. Perhaps federal land that adjoins the current UP right of way will be used for access the UP land with heavy equipment.
First off I really like the approach of seeing how adjacent land owners are affected as mentioned above.
Secondly, twice in recent years there have been stories about preserving the original CPR transcontinental line near Selkirk Manitoba outside of Winnipeg MB. The line still exists as it was constructed in 1882, and seeing it may be helpful in identifying construction methods and techniques used on some of the later ROW revisions. Unfortunately, I do not know who to contact there, but inquires at local museums or train clubs may point you in the right direction.
I mention this because Manitoba wouldn’t be an unreasonable distance from Wyoming.
For something almost as strange - I’ll be needing to cite a Slashdot post as prior art for a patent application submitted with a co-worker. Do need to say that the Slashdot article was directly related to the problem we’re working on.
I work for an oil company and I acquire seismic data to explore with. I am also a railfan so I get to play both sides of the street on this on.
In the course of my job, I am in charge of basically mapping large areas and we need to act reasonable and steward the land. We seek to minimize our impact and footprint on the land in any way we reasonable can. I have received several awards over the years from state and federal agencies over how we went above and beyond the call of duty to protect the land so it is not just a government requirement, more of a personal commitment.
So what is the real reason I am so concerned about it? Well the first level is the BLM requires I stay 100 ft off the grade with my 30 ton vibe trucks and all of my gear. We will be running the trucks every 100 yrds over the land so that many crossings would destroy right of way just from driving over it. Especially on the fill areas. On the second level there is a personal concern not to destroy history. Where we are, you can see where pipelines, fiber optic cable companies, gravel companies and others have absolutely destroyed the Lincoln highway and the original 1868 UPRR grade. I am not going to let it be said that an oil company did the same thing!
No there will be absolutely no digging for artifacts or anything. I have over 30 registered Arch’s on my project and if that happened I would be in deep trouble.
You might wonder why I don’t ask the archs? I did and they have a map of what is the “approved” route. From prior experience the “approved route” may not be the “real route”. Thus I will protect both. One because I am required by Law, and one because it is the right thing to do.
Thanks for the tip on the Colorado museum. I will try and call them later today. I am in touch with the UPRR Museum in Omaha but they don’t think they have the detail I need. They are still looking.
Thanks for the suggestions. I am now working with the UPRR right of way and the congressional record to sort this out. It appears that as each section was approved, there was an act of congress to grant funds to the RR. Thus I have been searching the Library of congress and the congressional record for the maps. You guys should read some of those old 1860s-70s acts and try to sort out the details. I have good absolutely blind trying to sort out those old reports.
What I did was talk to Cheyenne and the directed me to Omaha where I have been talking to the real properties and mapping folks. It has been a fascinating problem to investigate.