Help! Suggestions needed!

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

Ok, here goes. I am to the point of actually building another layout after several years since my last one. Below you will find my list of given and druthers.

Available space: 6’x13’ (approximate, within 3 inches +/-)

Scale: HO

Era: 1957

Theme: Southern shortline/branchline

Desired operation: 1 or 2 trains a day branchline type running No high speed main line, no passenger trains (well, maybe a coach at the end of the freight), no large freight yards (3 tracks, max.)

Max car length: 40’ freight cars, locomotives will be primarily 4 axle diesels.

Number of operators: 1 usually, maybe as many as 3.

Maximum grade: 2%, 1.5% preferred for main. 3% for branches and spurs.

Comments/additional info: This layout will also be home to my kid’s rolling stock should they ever get any. The room width of 13’ is fixed, the length of 6’ has no wall on the back (room is actually 13x25), but negotiations for the rest of the room are on hold for now. I have tried a basic folded dogbone track plan, but with unsatisfactory results. Provisions for continuous running are required (for the kid’s sake, as well as my sanity), duckunders are FORBIDDEN (based on past experience), lift-out or swing out or up bridges may be a viable option if necessary. Minimum radius is 18", 22 or 24" curves are preferred. Benchwork will be firmly screwed to 2 of the walls, 3rd wall is concrete (I’m NOT drilling into that! Moisture control reasons). I’d like something of a twice around setup, a folded dogbone would be workable if I could make it fit, I would elevate the “back” line about 3-4 inches to give a little scenic variation. The “branch” for the mine would have a bit of run to it (maybe around the walls), also to add some elevation.

I’ll tinker aound some more to see what I can come up with, and post a pic if I can come to some sort of compromise.

Brad

2

OK, let’s see here, here’s my 3rd effort, let’s see if I can post it:

I haven’t put in any yard or sidings yet, just trying to get the “main” in place. I designed it with RTS 7.0, but I’ll lay it with flex track so a few more adjustments can be made. The curves are 18", I really wanted 24" or even 22", but I’ll see how this looks first. I only plan on 10-12 car trains with 40’ cars. The “outer” track will be 2 or 3 sides against a wall, and will go up a 1.5% grade to 3" of elevation.

I’ll piddle with it some more to try to draw in the benchwork, and put in some colors or something to show the proposed elevation.

Hey, what do you know, it worked, and the elevations even came out!

Brad

3

I’d go with a lift-out, but make it a dramatic bridge. I’d make a double-track main, but only a single track over the long bridge for operational interest. Let the mains run parallel for a while, but also split apart for a “you take the high road, and I’ll take the low road” effect. At least one should have a long passing siding, again for operational interest. This will let you relax a bit on the tight radius problems you get with loops, and will give you some room for a yard and industries without having to have those loops.

4

Did you mean something like this?

This was drawn again with the RTS 7.0, with 24 and 22" curves, but I would probably go ahead with 30" curves if I went this route. Sure, I could even move the lines in a bit from the walls, and run my “branch” against the walls all the way around to a nice little summit where the mine would be. I thought about the double tracks and initially thought them inappropriate for a branchline, but if I tinker around with them a bit and give them some separation both vertically and laterally, that could serve essentially similar to how mine original plan had the vertical separation. The only drawback I can find is the lack of length to the mainline run. My last plan had (I think) 64 feet of run, where this plan has only about 34 feet.

As far as a dramatic bridge, how about a 30" long wooden covered bridge? Sure, maybe not common in the south, but it sure would make for an interesting conversation piece. Simply use a sturdy piece of 3/4" thick by 2" wide board for a base, attach some wood sheathing to the sides, and some kind of roof, maybe tin (it was very common roofing material 50-100 years ago). A bit of barn red paint and it’s good to go. Definately need safety switches so when the bridge is out trains stop short of the big plunge. Rail power

5

A covered bridge would work fine, as long as nothing derails inside.

6

Hi twcenterprises
Watching this with interest. I have approx the same dimensions available.( actually more)
Actually haven’t started new layout construction yet.
Scale is HO
Had given thought to very similar layout design as you have, but undecided at this point.
A lot of optional designs could be worked out before I start construction.
Total dimensions for the room I have are 15 feet 5 inches wide, approx 31 feet long with an alcove that comes out several feet on one end on the backside. Perhaps I should take a photo and post it. Lot of stuff needs moved out of the way to another storage area.
If I leave about 3 feet on one side (lengthwise) that leaves with about 12 feet total width and I can go around the walls.
I ordered a copy of MR December 1999 and there is an article on a liftout made with magnetic cabinet latches, power is routed thru them.

So when you lift the liftout up, power is cut.
My other idea was to start with a 3 tables like modules put end to end for a total length of 24 feet, with a 6 foot width which for now would be totally walk around on all sides.
This would allow for approx 32 to 34 inch radius curves with two main lines.
Plenty of room for a yard, and various sidings, and a long passing siding on at least one side of the table.

Also have a Walthers 130 foot turntable to add into this with a engine service yard.
I could put a backdrop down the middle allowing for 3 feet width on both sides., or leave it open and place a couple of nice reversing loops into the overall scheme.

Later on add on and go around the walls with an extension off of one end and then back onto the main table at the other end.

The reason for my wish for large radius curves is I have several BLI steamers which would look better on a larger radius.
I have 2 BLI T1 Duplexes, an M1a and an M1b, and a J1, along with 2 PK2 2-8-8-2s, and 2 IHC Mountains.

Also several PRR passenger trains.

7

A covered bridge would have hidden rerailers inside to help circumvent this issue. Also, since the bridge would be removable, one could have a way of removing derailed cars (hold the bridge on end and shake out the cars?).

I thought about the plan some more last night, I’m wondering how a twice around loop would work? It would probably require 2 bridges, or maybe install a swinging gate of some kind (with scenery), and moving the bridge. Needless to say, the gate would require some engineering to make it work, but other modelers have done it, and I think I can do it too.

I have also given some thought to the fact that for the next few years, this layout is going to have to be kid friendly, my son will surely have his Hot Wheels on the layout (with my presence), so I will need to provide him a spot to run his cars. Thomas is bound to make some appearances, so that will be taken into account.

At this point, I’m still leaning toward the first plan I posted, but I’ll tinker around with the twice around concept to see what I come up with.

Brad

8

I see lots of track being thrown around without a defined concept, and none of them look branch-like to me. Are their any thoughts on a prototype? Southern roads had very different styles of trackwork, facilities placement etc. I see one place that says, “my choosen prototype” but I can’t find where that was stated.

9

Ahh, so we finally get to the heart of the matter! Well, a little background info is in order. My prototype is as follows: I am modeling the Gainesville Northwestern RR as it may have appeared in 1957, had the Southern Railway taken it over. The real G&NW ran from Gainesville, GA, to Clermont, GA (about 15-20 miles), where it split, one leg went off toward Dahlonega, GA (home of the first US Gold Rush), and the other went to Cleveland, Helen, and Robertstown, GA. The Dahlonega leg did not go all the way to Dahlonega, but ended at the mining town of Chestatee, the town is long gone now. It was only about 5-6 miles from Dahlonega. The Cleveland, Helen, and Robertstown branch ended in Robertstown, which is still there, but in it’s day was a logging town. The logging business is long gone as are any known traces of the buildings, Helen is a “tourist trap” town, but was not until after the 1960’s. In reality, the mining branch was a subsidiary (The Chestatee RR). Total track mileage was around 50 miles, including the branch. The G&NW folded in the’30’s, but in my version it was bought out by Southern Railway (and according to some historical references, it was actually considered), and has been brought up to Southern standard and practices, but the mining branch was sold off to the mining company (since they are the only customer on that branch).

My model should (if I have room) represent the entire line from Gainesville, to Robertstown, with the junction in Clermont, and the branch to the mines. In reality, there were about 15-18 towns served by this RR, but most of them were little more than flag stops, and most are all but gone. There were only about 5 towns that really produced any freight traffic to speak of.

Most of this RR’s original facilities were limited to just a handfull of wooden stations which doubled as passenger stations and freight depots. Some of the flag stops were essentially open she

10

Is the Unicoi Turnpike between Helen & Robertstown on the old railroad grade?

Well I looked and looked and couldn’t find much about the Gainesville & Northwestern. I checked all the on-line Sanford Fire maps. The only thing I found was how the tracks were in Gainesville proper in 1922. That wasn’t too much help as I am certian if the Southern had taken over they would have abandon much of the track that was parallel to their own.

I think the concept is sound. It will take a bit of thinking to get all that into the tiny amount of available space. Did you have any thoughts of where the lumber mills and ore smelters are going to be? Or is the timber already pre-cut into lumber before it is picked up in Robertstown & Helen.

11

Not sure. My understanding is the RR followed the river from Robertstown about halfway back to Cleveland.

There wasn’t too much parallel trackage, maybe 1-2 miles at the most. They might have used the parallel trackage for interchange purposes (or storing cars until the next scheduled train departed with them)

I may not be able to get everything in my small space, but I’ll try. The ore smelters were not on line, these loads were interchanged and sent off to wherever the smelters were. The lumber mill was in Robertstown, so they shipped out cut lumber. I would think in the 50’s, they would also ship out wood chips to paper mills, as well as pulpwood. I’m not sure if the lumber was “dressed” (planed smooth and sanded if needed) before shipping, rough cut lumber was very common in those days, so I would think the lumber went out rough cut and dressed if needed at the lumberyard where it was sold.

I was thinking about possibly having the lumber mill on one side of a backdrop, and Gainesville on the other, and having my lumber yard positioned so the lumber mill/lumber yard can have a loads-in/empti

12

Well, I’ve decided what to do for an interim solution. I’ve had a 4’x8’ trackplan that I’ve wanted to build for quite some time, so I will build it so that I can at least run some trains for while. I will keep working on my other plans, and will keep the 4x8 for shows when I build my next layout. This was in MR sometime in 1995 for the Atlanta Central (which I had the priviledge of being part of), and I do think it later appeared by another name somewhere else. My only major change will be to remove the turnouts and corresponding crossing which leads off the layout. Here’s a copy:

This is a modified version to accomodate the track I currently have on-hand. I put in 22" radius curves, and #4 Atlas turnouts. I haven’t decided what to do scenically, but I’ll come up with something.

Brad