Hello, I have inherited some American Flyer gear and need help getting it running. I have a 4-8-4 #336 and a 4-4-0 Franklin #21088. I have a 12B transformer. The locos are freshly cleaned, lubed, and tested by a pro. The transformer is putting out variable 0 to 15 AC volts and the voltage is reaching the track. The 4-4-0 does not work at all, no hint of juice being received. The 4-8-4 is mostly not working in a random-appearing way. By “mostly working” I mean the #336 clicks once in a while, and even ran for a moment once, I have been pressing the reverse button on the transformer, and that seems to illicit the response, sometimes.
A couple questions:
The 4-8-4 has a lever in the tender that appears to be an RC switch. It feels like two-position as opposed to four. There is no indication which way is “on” for the switch. How does this thing work?
I still need to clean the rails for sure, but like I said, good juice is getting to the rails, and I tried attaching alligator clips direclty to the loco wheels and that did not work. Should I clean the rails with fine grit sandpaper on a dremel at modest speeds, is that acceptible?
A couple other questions:
The Franklin appears to have no remote control switch, is that correct? Although there is some electronics module hanging down below the tender bottom, but no switch apparent.
Neither unit has any way to turn the smoke unit “off.” I read somewhere you should turn it off if running without smoke fluid, but I see no way to do that.
Thanks in advance for your help. I have two preschool boys hanging over my shoulder asking when the train will run.
It sounds to me like you are dealing with the classic “malfunctioning reverse unit” syndrome. Scroll down a bit and read the thread entitled American Flyer - E Unit Problem and you will find a comprehsive discussion of many of the same issues you are describing. Including a description of how to build a jumper device that allows you to bypass the tender unit and test the motor directly.
The switch under the tender is a mechanical linkage that allows you to disengage the soleniod in the reverse unit, forcing the loco to run in only one direction. It doesn’t actually bypass the unit however, so it won’t do you any good if the electrical contacts are shot.
Ok, the 4-8-4 runs fine now. Not sure what was the issue Here’s my question on that:
The RC switch: in one position, it responds to stopping the throttle, for each "stop:, it goes: it goes forward, then rolls forward a few inches and stops, then goes backwards, then rolls backwards a few icnhes and stops, then repeat cycle. When the RC switch is the otherway, it only goes forward. Ok. (When people say four position, are they referring to the function, not the swtich?)
What does the reverse switch on the 12B transformer do? I canot see that mine does anything, maybe it broken.
The franklin still is inoperative. I may need to go back to the repair guy. Am I missing something, is it DC powered? Is there a switch on it I am missing?
4-8-4: The switch is a lever. It is used to either lock or unlock the mechanical reverse unit in the tender in the desired position - usually forward. The lever can be moved from side to side for that function. I think you will just have to play with it to discover how it works. It sends a voltage from the track to the motor and controls the direction that the loco travels. It is a four-position reverse unit, so when you press the reversing button on the transformer or move the transformer throttle from running-speed voltage to 0 volts, it will cycle as follows: neutral-forward-neutral-reverse. Neutral means the loco is not moving.
Attaching alligatoor clips directly to the loco wheels will not do a thing. The voltage from the track is taken up through the metal wheels on the tender. Notice that there is one pair of metal wheels on one side and one pair on the other. The front pair usually take up the voltage from the variable post of the transformer connected to that rail and the rear set then returns a theoretcial 0 volts back through the other rail to the base post of the transformer. Make sure the tender wheels are bright and shiny clean by cleaning with an ink eraser or a little lighter fluid or acetone on a cloth or Q-tip. Don’t get any of that cleaner on the plastic wheels paint or it will harm them. A Dremel tool with a wire wheel can be used to clean tender wheels, but do it away from the track so pieces of the wire wheel don’t find themselves getting picked up by the electro-magnet in the loco open-frame motor.
Clean the track with a cloth the same way as you may have cleaned the wheels. The original factory method of track cleaning was with kerosene, but most any solvent - except gasoline - will do. Only use a very fine grit Emory cloth if there is actual corrosion.
It may be that the cam action on your reverse unit is not working properly. Ordinarily when the reverse unit cycles to neutral, there should be no electrical contact and the engine should not move at all. It sounds like your unit is not fully cycling, leading to a situation where the electrical contacts are still partially touching when the drum stops rotating. They only fully disengage when the engine lurches forward or back. You could have a weak soleniod, or a wornout drum assembly. Otherwise the operation you describe is normal. With the RC switch set to disengage the solenoid, the engine only moves in one direction, no matter how many times you cycle the power.
The reverse unit on the Franklin is in the tender. It is a two cycle as it has no neutral. The silver bracket that goes across the bottom with two small “wings” pushes up and down. Up is locked in the current direction and down is allowing it to cycle.
I just looked up a 12B transformer and I do not think you have a reverse swith. There is an on-off switch and a reset button for the internal circuit breaker. Unless you have had a short circuit, from a derailment or a screw driver layed out across the rails, you shouldn’t have to use this switch. There are also red and green lights, red would indicate you have had a short, and green indicates power on. Keep at it, it sounds like you are making progress!!
Thanks, but I definitely have the switch labeled “reverse switch” on the transformer. Now that I understand what it is supposed to do - interrupt the current - I am pretty sure it is malfunctioning intermittently (it only works sometimes, sometimes it does work). But maybe the problem is in the RC unit that is intermittent. I will get the transformer looked at by a pro. But first I will test it on the bench. I also think the red light is burnt out, so I will replace that.
Yes, in fact I am pretty sure the RC unit in the Northern is failing, but intermittently. Sometimes it works as intended, sometimes not at all.
Question: what is the proper cycle for resetting the circuit breaker? Do I need to power off first? Pause for a minute?
I never would have guessed that was the switch. Perhaps it was in a half-way position.
Question: should the silver bracket move the plastic rocker that I can see? When I move the bracket up and down, there is no other discernable activity in the module. However, I can move the plastic rocker back and forth using a small screwdriver.
I think we are getting close with the Franklin. Sometimes it “clicks” in response to ppower, sometimes not. I will fiddle with the RC unit some more.
On the 336, the pawl may be sticking not allowing the drum to rotate and switch directions. The sticking pawl is fixable. First try cleaning it, then lubing it. CRC-5-56 or similar contact cleaner and a flux brush will do a good job of cleaning.
Make sure the lockout lever is positioned to let the coil trip the lever. After cleaning and lubing the moving parts work the lever by hand several times to allow the cleaner and lube get into all the moving parts. If the pawl is still sticking make sure there is not a burr or notch worn into the E-unit frame where the little brass “L” shaped piece makes contact, if there is use a small file to smooth the edge. Sometimes as a last resort, ever so gently bend the brass “L” shaped part so less surface area is coming in contact with the e-unit frame.
Once the e-unit is cycling, if the current is not getting to the loco, first look at the fingers on the e-unit where they contact the drum. It should be a sliding contact configuration. All four fingers must make contact with the drum.
I figued that would be the case. But there is so much emphasis in any instructions placed on the “base” post versus the variable post… thought maybe there was some electronic magic I might be unaware of.
On the Franklin, I see that the silver lever is not moving the plastic rocker. So the connecting rod must be not connected. Maybe I’ll just take this back to the pro too.
