I have a Williams semi-scale GG-1 and the front truck derails on O22 turnouts (two years old) when the train is going through the curve part of the turnout. On a left hand turnout the front truck always jumps off the right side of the track after the turnout.
The GG-1 does not derail when going straight through the turnout.
I have some older O22 turnouts and a 5133 and 5132 turnout. The GG-1 does not appear to derail on these.
I have:
made sure the table is level
gone through the switches slowly
checked the front trucks for different sized wheels
raised the front fender on the trucks to ensure it doesn’t hit anything as it passes through
filed the plastic guides down on the turnouts so they are flush with the tops of the rails (to help eliminate hops during the transition)
I also have an O-27 steamer, a Williams F7, a Lionel Alco A-A, and a RMT Buddy. None of these derail through the turnouts.
It would appear that there is one spot on these turnouts where the wheels are no longer fully supported by the outside rail (on a left hand turnout this would happen on the left outside rail before the split as it the wheels are passing the swivel rail assembly).
My thought is that the front truck of the GG-1 does not have enough downward pressure and is too light to ride through this section and stay aligned.
Has anyone else experienced this, or do you have ideas for a fix (besides moving to Gargraves or Ross switches)?
Birds…I have a similar problem, but it is with MTH switches. Only a few engines have a problem, not all of them. I have found that the guard rail is not tight enough against the outermost diverging rail. This lets the wheel going through the frog ride over the point and derail.
Currently, I have been using black electrical tape on my guard rail and this temporary fix is working. I am now thinking about gluing a small piece of styrene to the guard rail.
I think the problem is primarily with the switch, but I also believe that the wheel gauge of the engine is just a tad to wide. A narrower gauge would let the guard rail keep the opposite wheel off of the frog.
FYI
Guard rail (check rail)
A guard rail (check rail) is a short piece of rail placed alongside the main (stock) rail opposite the frog. These exist to ensure that the wheels follow the appropriate flangeway through the frog and that the train does not derail. Generally, there are two of these for each frog, one by each outer rail.
I have not found one end of the Williams GG-1 to be heavier than the other. I’ve tried running it forward (the direction that starts forward) and then flipped it around (so you have to cycle through the directions to get it going forward) and it did not make a difference.
Buckeye’s comments about the wheel width got me thinking…
The wheels on the front and rear of the Williams GG-1 trucks are free floating wheels. There are no gears and they spin independently of each other on the same axle. Each wheel can also float left to right quite a bit on the same axle so there is not a set width to the axle. There is quite a bit of play in terms of the width of the wheels.
This issue became worse when I lubricated the wheels on the front and rear trucks to spin more freely. Well the wheels also slide left to right more easily after being lubricated.
What I have noticed is that only the leading truck goes off the rails, but the two center drive trucks stay on the rails. The wheels on the drive trucks do not have the type of left to right play that the front and rear trucks have. None of the wheels on my other engines have the type of play the front and rear trucks of the GG-1 have.
So I am thinking that the issue may have to do with the amount of play in the free floating wheels on the the front trucks. I’ll spend some time working on a way to keep them a set distance and see if that helps.
There are many causes for derailments. In some cases just slowing down a bit over switches will correct the problem, but I doubt that it will solve yours.
In a real train, GG1 or otherwise, the leading and trailing trucks support some of the weight of the locomotive. This seems not to be true of the models, however. On the contrary, virtually the entire weight of the locomotive rests on the 12 drive wheels, The front and rear trucks need downward force from the base of the loco onto the top of the trucks in order to follow the track successfully. Some times this is achieved by weight alone; at other times a spring is required.
I don’t know whether the Williams GG1 uses a spring or not, and I haven’t got one to check. But if it does, you might try replacing it with one slightly stronger. Sometime just stretching the spring a bit will do the trick. I have a rather rough carpet-central track, and I couldn’t get my Williams steamer to stop derailing until I replaced the spring over the front trucks. I blame my miserable trackwork, not Williams; but in my arthritic condition it was much easier to replace the spring than it would have been to re-do the track…
Also, though the wheel gauge may be off, or have too much play, the real problem might be that the front trucks don’t pivot smoothly or have the ability to travel full range. A dab of grease will often help, but check to ensure that the swing of the truck is unobstructed…
For the record, as I recall it only the single-motor postwar Lionel 2332 had a lead (?) weight over one set of trucks. It was sometimes found that the loco tracked better in one direction than the other.
Speed does not have an impact on these newer switches. It will derail at a slow speeds too.
I will try more weight on the trucks.
The Williams GG-1 does have springs on the trucks. I have tried swapping trucks (front to back, back to front) and that didn’t make a difference. I also tried running the back end forward (if the GG-1 has a back end) and that didn’t make a difference.
I have not tried “springing” the spring a bit to give it more pressure.
The entire truck assemply has lots of play, room to swivel, and swivels freely, but just to make there was ample play I loosened the screw that holds the truck in place so there was even more play. This did not make a difference.
Thank you for all of your responses. Progress is being made…
I decided to start with the easiest idea first - downward pressure.
I “sprung” the springs on the front and rear trucks in hopes that this would add more downward pressure to the trucks.
The engine is now able to go through the curve part of all the turnouts at speed without derailing. It can do this alone, and also while pulling four 0-27 passenger cars with die-cast trucks and couplers.
So it appears that more pressure on the trucks is a benefit.
I am thinking that adding some weights to the top of the trucks may be a good idea long term. I was thinking of using the small square lead weights used on ceiling fan blades since they are pretty flat and should not get in the way of anything.
My Williams GG1 would derail on O guage O22 switches until I opened it up and found that the internal wires were binding. I re-routed them, and now all is good.
It would appear that the GG-1 is in good shape now. It goes through the curves on the O-22 turnouts at 10-11 volts (as fast as I want to run it on this size layout) without derailing. I’ll run it for a few days and see if it continues to behave.
I added some flat lead weights to the tops of the front and rear trucks. It may not seem like a lot, but it seems to help these trucks track better over all - including on the straights.
BobM - Thank you for the suggestion about checking the wires. I took the shell off and there were a couple lamp wires I moved out of the way as a precaution. There was also one wire crimped between the shell and frame and I was able to address that.