Ok. I just watched the DIY network, “Workin on the Railroad”, and after seeing David Popp install DCC I’m convinced it’s the way to go for me. After many years of running conventional DC, I’ve got some questions that I’d like to answer, (more or less), before I purchase. I’d like to get something that is simple to program, but will operate up to 16 locos, have all the sound I want, (ie:12 function), possibly run accesories like switches, and not be too expensive. I’ve been drawn to the Digitrax stuff, but the Zephyr hass too little and the Empire builder and Super Chief too much. Is there a happy medium?
Well the main thing (IMHO) about getting a DCC system is getting one that’s expandable. That way you don’t have to worry about getting one now that will have everything you may ever want right now. The Zephyr is what I started with a couple of years ago and it’s a good place to start. It has enough power to run about 10-12 engines at the same time. As it comes out of the box, it has once controller (so you can only control one train at a time, although you can run several trains at the same time) and has F0-F8 function buttons. As a temporary thing you can connect up a DC ‘jump’ throttle and control two trains that way.
In my case, after a year or so, I bought a UT-4 walkaround unit for about $65 that allowed me to control another train and follow it around, but also has F0-F12 functions. It bothers some people that you can’t program a decoder with the UT-4 but I’m fine with programming thru the Zephyr main unit.
I believe you can add to the Zephyr, both to get more power and to control switches etc. but so far for me I haven’t seen the need to do either so can’t comment much on that.
How about a Zephyr with a DT400 throttle. The DT 400 will give you the 12 functions, not that one uses the higher numbers very much. It also can run the switches. Later on if you want to add more power, it is a snap to add a DB150 as a booster.
I really like my MRC PA. It has all you need and cost under $200.00. Expandability may be not as extensive but unless your running a club, I doubt that would be a problem.
Talk about easy to program! Set your loco on the programming track, enter a road number and press enter. Thats it.
[2c]
Peter
Get a brand that people in your area use, so you have real people to talk to. Most of the problems I have had were not covered in the books. I went with digitrax after 45 years with DC. Main reason was all the people I know used it and my LHS sold it. I went with Superchief. I would just be adding on to the Zephyr before I started. The Empire Builder was really old technology and will not read CVs. That will be an issue soon if not now. I do wish I would have started with radio. I am adding it now and it is costing a little more. If money is a big issue, everyone I have talked to who has the Zephyr likes it untill it is too small.
Have fun, I sure am. DCC is what I have wanted since I started. When I discovered I could run my old brass at adress 00, I jumped. I wish someone would have told me that sooner.
Joe,
Unless you’re planning to run all 16 of those locos at the same time, I bet you’ll find the Zephyr to be adequate. Simon’s suggestion of adding the DT400 throttle is a good one.Art’s suggestion of going radio with it so you can operate wireless is also good. That is the combination I have.
Every one of the major DCC brands works great, and won’t disappoint you. And every one of them has a few quirks that you’ll wish were different. SInce you’re already in DC, you can use your old power pack(s) as throttles as Zephyr jump ports (I think Digitrax is othe only one to offer that).
And I like my Lenz-100. I bought it because it has the full function set and a 5 amp capacity right out of the box. I wired my own control bus using 5-pin DIN panel jacks and phone wire. I like the big buttons on the controller. I added a Lenz-90 analog dial throttle, but I seldom use that one.
Lenz also has a great warrantee. But, in reading posts on this forum for a year and a half now, I’ve only seen a couple of posts about people sending any DCC system back for repairs. They all seem to be pretty robust.
Joe,
The systems already mentioned will work well for you. NCE also makes a nice one. I have the Power Cab and like it because, for me, the throttle is more intuitive to use than the other systems. It’s also expandable, too.
If expense is a concern and you like the Digitrax design, the Zephyr may be more in what you are looking for. As Stix mentioned, the important thing is to have a DCC system that will expand with your layout. Every system has it’s pros and cons. You need to figure what features (idiosyncrasies) you can live with and what features you can’t live without.
Also, most DCC systems can store well more than 16 separate addresses. However, you probably won’t be running that many simultaneously unless you are planning on having a large layout and operating sessions. For me, keeping track of two locomotives simultaneously is enough to keep my adrenaline pumping and my brain cells firing at full capacity.
Hope that helps…
Tom
Art has made some excellent points here. I went into DCC with the Empire Builder as it came highly recommended, especially for my size of layout. I have absolutely no regrets in fact it made the hobby more enjoyable as it opened things up and made operations far more easy and enjoyable.
Fergie
Is that all the sound you want, or all the sound you think you want because it is currently the “biggest” number? Having had DCC sound now for quite a while, I seldom - I mean really seldom - I mean like twice in five years - have wanted to access anything on the higher functions.
I ask, because this is going to be the biggest limiting thing in your requirements (which most posters seem to be ignoring). Most throttles have only some of the functions (like 0-7) available with a single button sequence. Some have only 4! Only a few have all 12 functions immediately accessible with a single button press (one of them being the low end Bachmann!).
That’s a good point, on a sound engine, the functions most used are F-0 (headlights) F-1 (Bell) and F-2 (Horn/Whistle). On QSI sound engines I use F-3 (coupler smash) but not that often. F-8 (mute sound) comes up once in a while. On the newer QSI/BLI ones I think F-10(?) has the voice that tells you the engine ID no. (when stopped) and (when the engine is moving) the speed. That’s the only one higher than F-8 that I can remember using.
I went with the NCE system because it’s user friendly. Initially I had planned to go with the Power Pro system that has the walk around cab capability but decided to spend the extra money for the radio version that I really wanted. Purchasing the top of the line model from the start actually saved me a few dollars in the long run. Buying the necessary radio parts separately would have cost almost half the amount by themselves.
All of the NCE starter system packages allow you to change the CV’s and I believe all the cabs that come with starter sets have 12 function buttons.
IMHO if you have the funds, purchase the best DCC system you can from the start. It is the HEART of your layout.
Bill
Joe:
Don’t be misled by all the hoop-ta-la over lots of function keys for sound. Here’s a post by Gerry Hopkins from my Siskiyou Line forum where we discussed this issue:
( If you would like to see the entire discussion in context, you can click here. )
So as you can see, having all those function keys is not especially practical and more marketing hype than real world layout operations.
One other consideration is the form factor of any DCC system you buy. If you intend to expand into a layout that will have walkaround operations, something like the Zephyr with it’s powerpack form factor is not the best choice. The entry level Powercab system by NCE is a great choice because the handheld becomes just another walkaround throttle later.
I am curious about this function issue. Many of you seem to feel that the higher functions are not often used. I do not yet have DCC but have been researching systems extensively because I must make a decision very soon (benchwork going up).
I noticed that the number of functions available by system can vary dramatically. As few as 4 and as many as 16 (MRC Prodigy Advance). I understand that at the present time the higher functions are not much used. But what about the future?
If age and experience have taught me anything, it is that technology always moves forward not back. And that pioneers are usually the ones with arrows in their backs. LOL! In other words, I want to be ready for new technology to come but I don’t want to be the first to use it. The problem is that some people still have the 12:00 blinking on their VCR. If you’re one of those, I suggest a very simple DCC system. If you are one of those that actually knows how to use the picture-in-picture on your TV set, then a more advanced DCC system is probably for you.
MRC advertises the 16 functions for BLI locos. Do BLI locos have that many functions yet? I don’t have a BLI yet so I don’t know. I think I am going with Digitraxx (zephyr and/or super chief) for my new mid-size layout (12’x17’). I do worry about those functions in the future though.
I have the MRC PA and was in your situation of buying a, “medium” system recently. I have sound on my layout and it works as good as you can have it. All of the funtions of sound are opperable, or at least all I know work. It is a great system that is easy to use and fun to work with. I am getting a second cab today to expand my number of opperators. Good luck picking you system!!
Surfstud31,
Of the Function (F-) buttons available on my NCE Power Cab, I use the following on a somewhat regular basis:
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F0 - Lights
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F1 - Bell
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F2 - Whistle
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F6 - Doppler
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F8 - Mute
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F9 - Shutdown
Of those 6, here’s how I would list them as far as usuage:
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F0 - Lights
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F8 - Mute
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F2 - Whistle
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F1 - Bell
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F6 - Doppler
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F9 - Shutdown
Sound in DCC is cool but not as important to me as operations. (My brain can fill in the sound quite fine if I press F8 to mute the chuff.) However, lights for me are huge because it’s such a visual part of the locomotive.
Tom
I have the Digitrax Zephyr with 3 UP5 panels and I regularly use 3 DT400 throttles. It works great and I usually run 8 trains at a time with it. I’m going to be upgrading it very soon with the Empire Builder only because I’m expanding my present layout. The 12 function keys are nice and I played around with all the function keys when I got my first sound loco but to be honest now I only ring the bell, blow the horn and turn the lights off and on.
TA - someone warned me off the Empire Builder for some reason, I forgot. Had to do with feedback or something - I suggest the Super Chief.
Tom, thanks for that great breakdown. I like the sound too although I’ve yet to experience many engines at once. I saw that thread with the conrail video and thought it was really cool with the sound. Felt like the ground was rumbling beneath me as the engines roared by.
BigBlueCon, I love the MRC Advance except it has no PC interface. I’m not hooking up to a computer yet, but I can see it in the future - if just for programming decoders. If MRC had that, it would be tough to overlook that system. I like the throttle too (except not backlit).
Future proofing your purchase is a valid concern. It was one of the reasons that I chose Digitrax in the first place myself. The loconet backbone of Digitrax allows each device attatched to the loconet to bring its own capabilities to the party without having to upgrade the command station. For example, my Zephyr command station only has F0 to F9 supported. I purchased extra throttles (UT4 and DT400) which have F10-12. Plug them in and without having to upgrade the command station these funtions are now available on my layout. Given that Digitrax is one of the foremost companies in the field, I fully anticipate that new innovative devices that come along from Digitrax will simply interface into my existing loconet setup.
The EB is far and away the oldest of the Digitrax command stations (The DB150 is the old bit that has the shortcomings). It can not read back from a decoder. So you can send program commands to the decoder, but have no means of reading back settings to see how things are setup, or to verify that what you sent has been accepted. At a street price of $260 it is actually good value as you get the DT400 dual control throttle and 5 amp capability. If it were me, I would spend the extra $70 and get the Chief.