I’m working on detailing some Kato 70 and 80macs. How far from the cab body should the grabs be positioned? In one of the MR mags from last year, a guy was using a piece of strip styrene as a spacer so all the grabs would be even. I need to know how thick it needs to be.
Thanks for the help,
Derrick
About 6 scale inches would be close. This works out to .070 or slightly over 1/16th of an inch. Actually if you could find a piece of plastic 1/16th or .062 thick I think it would be close enough. It might be more important for them to be uniform, than the actual correct measurement.
deschane,
Thanks. That’s what I had planned to do. I was going to use a piece of strip styrene about 1.5 inches long cut to fit between the legs of the grabs as a simple jig to make sure all the grabs were even. Once the glue dries on the grabs, then pull the strip styrene out. I just needed the thickness. Somewhere around .070 it is.
Thanks again,
Derrick
could use some help to. i got a bunch proto 2000 gp engines with busted grab irons. dont want the same kind of junk again becuase they break so easy. been looking on the web but cant find a compny that makes metal ones. much obliged if any body knows who makes them for ho engines.
I think the company is called details associated and there should be dimpels where to drill the holes I have used them rambo1…
ill check them out. my engines got the holes just need some metal grabs. plastic braeks to easy. much obliged
Amoungst others, Detail Associates, A-Line and Tichey are 3 manufactures of drop-grabs. I believe you can find all three at Walthers.com or you can buy them directly from A-Line and Tichey Trains.
Another good source for parts & decals; http://www.mgdecals.com/homepage.htm scroll down about 2/3 the way down for detail parts.
Atlas also has the drop grabs in their parts line, there is a vendor on Ebay that goes by the name of SoooMuchStuff, or something close to that, you can find their items almost everyday in the HO Scale “Buy-It-Now” section. They have literally thousands of parts listed from Atlas and a few others but they also have the drop grabs in metal that you are looking for.
I purchased some Athearn axle gears from them to fix some of my early Proto diesels and their service is outstanding.
Definately worth looking in to…
Mark
A-line tend to be cheaper than the rest, they are all rather similar these days, just make sure you order the type (drop, straight, etc.) and width (18", 24", etc.) that you need.
i dont know the size for proto gp7 and f7. whats a drop type?
Sorry was thinking box cars but this is applicable to some engines also, straight grabs come straight out of the hole, drop can come out a ways and then drop or drop immediately. With engines the types and sizes expand alot with many specific to an engine, sometimes you have to make you own grab irons.
While not on a diesel, a drop-style grabiron is like the ones on this old Varney boxcar, at the bottom edge of the end.
I generally use a .030" styrene strip to space the grabirons away from the body. This is roughly 3" in HO scale and seems to “look right” - this dimension may be different for diesels. After drilling the holes, and, if necessary, bending the grabs to suit, I install all grabs, then slip the spacer in place. While pressing the grabirons against the spacer, I then bend-over all of the ends which protrude into the carbody. After removing the spacer, apply ca from inside the body shell. If you leave the spacer in place while applying the glue, there’s a good chance that it will end up glued in place, as the ca will be drawn through the holes and under the spacer.
If you’re installing multiple grabirons, like on the car shown below, you may find that, as you install them, many will appear crooked.
As long as you’ve drilled the holes accurately, don’t worry about the sloppy appearance. This is usually due to a combination of holes drilled in the proper spots but on an angle, and grabirons bent accurately, but also with the bent ends at an angle not horizontal to the visible section. After using the spacer and applying the ca, use a pair of suitably-sized smooth-jawed pliers to “adjust” the grabs back into horizontal alignment. Grasp the visible portion of the grabiron, then twist the pliers slightly in the required direction - with a little practice, you can do a car like the one above in less than a minute.
Wayne
Nice redo, you can work on my fleet anytime!
Thanks, Larry. [;)] While the Varney car doesn’t have anywhere near the detail of current offerings, I think the upgrades allow it to blend in a little better. As one of the cars from my first HO trains, acquired in the '50s, I wanted to keep it in service for sentimental reasons. Here’s a look at the re-worked car:
The other car shown is a Proto1000 offering from LifeLike Canada. It came with factory-installed free-standing plastic grabirons, but I felt them to be overly thick, so replaced them with wire parts. For the first six cars which I did, I removed the grabs but, with some difficulty, managed to retain the nbw details which were an integral part of the grabiron castings. I then had to re-drill the grabiron mounting holes to enlarge them, then fill them with styrene rod, then re-drill again to accept the wire grabirons. Because of their unusual sizes, all grabs (36 per car) were custom bent from .012" brass wire. I modified the procedure for the next six cars, eliminating the drilling and filling operation with the styrene rod, which made the task a bit easier. All cars also got metal sill steps, six per car, to replace the plastic ones, and new board-by-board roofwalks, as those on the cars were 6" too short on both ends. I also replaced the roofwalk corner grabs with scratchbuilt ones, and replaced the plastic brake staffs with ones fashioned from .015" music wire. Oh, yeah, and also scratchbuilt four more similar cars. [banghead] All in all, a lot of grabirons, but these were probably the most commonly seen cars in Canada, with CPR rostering over 33,000 of them, and CNR adding almost 17,000 more.
Here’s one of the re-worked cars:
Wayne
The “standard” EMD diesel grab iron is the 18" drop grab. Don’t forget the curved grab behind the last fan on the hood, (Detail Associates, Tichey). Some modern diesels have angled grabs behind the fans, (SD60>), (Detail Associates). On top of most EMD short hoods, (spartan cabs), there is an 18" straight grab.
GE engines also use 18" drop grabs.
Prototype ALCo engines also have 18" drop grabs, but many of the scale models produced only measure out to 16", so the grabs need to be bent inward a little.
There are always exceptions to the above, use photos for refference.
Drop grabs prevent your foot from sliding off when wet, they are mostly used on vertical surfaces.
Make the spacer narrower than the actual grab so the spacer doesn’t touch the grabs as they come out of the holes. Don’t try to glue them straight from the bottle, pour a few drops into a bottle cap or something and apply the CA a small drop at a time with a pin or toothpick to the inside of the model. I use medium CA, rather than the thin type for this to prevent the runaway capillary action. I prefere to trim the grabs on the inside of the model, rather than bending them over, it just looks neater to me and there’s less chance of them interferring with something, but either way works.
Had to comment that I’m glad to see this thread.
I have several P2K and Athearn units that need handrails and grab irons and assumed that I would have to form replacements out of wire or guitar strings. Does irritate me as to at how easily their grab irons and stanchions break at the insert pins, especially P2K units. (Yes, I handle my units gently).
To improve the appearance of plastic handrails, you can use the original ones as patterns to make new ones from either brass or piano wire. Next, cut the handrail sections from between the stanchions, and drill the stanchions to the proper size for the new wire handrails. Thread them on to the wire and install on your loco. After you’ve re-aligned the stanchions and everything looks straight and neat, apply a little ca to all the handrail/stanchion joints. The Atlas RS-3 shown below was modified in this manner.
Wayne
Just bought some from Smokey Valley from Rob’s trains in Alliance Oh. They are brass castings with brass rails and a dimple if you are going to use the factory holes, for my Kato 70 Mac. They need a little cleaning from the mold but they look good and in scale too.http://www.smokeyvalley.com/ is the web site ,Jim.
if you invest in a couple pair of good quality needle nose pliers you can made your own out of brass wire.
it requires a bit of practice and the first few will look pretty crappy but in time you will get the hang of it and be able to do a good job. you can also make nice looking stirrup steps this way if you flatten the wire with a small hammer and anvil.
attach the parts with a small bit of super glue and touch up with a tiny paint brush.
i started doing this years ago and find they look good and stand up to handling better that the plastic ones.
grizlump
I use my Kadee pliers it make my bends with some pratice they look great. I make the bends first with a wire that is longer than needed and cut it to fit after all the bends , Jim.