I am looking for some information to help me work on a train for the Pike Size train contest that is due October 31st. I am hoping to replicate the Hawkeye train of the Illinois Central line that ran from Chicago to Sioux City. I live in NW Iowa and lived in Sioux City for 3 years and thought that this would be a good one for me. So far I have found a Rivarossi baggage car that is undecorated and two Rivarossi coaches that are also undecorated. I have also purchased an E8 shell that I can try to paint in the likeness of the Central of Georgia loco that is in the photograph used for the contest examples. The shell is painted as an Erie.
What I need help with is as follows: I’m looking for a good working example of an EMD E8. I believe that the shell that I got is a P2K model but I am not sure, (in the mail). I am looking for color photos of the train. Because it is the Hawkeye I assume that it is black and gold but it is impossible to tell from a black and white photo. The Walthers decals for Illinois Central and Central of Georgia seem to be hard to locate. If someone has a source for these I would apreciate it. I am also looking for the three axle trucks that go under the coaches. I haven’t looked very hard for those and am confident that I will be able to locate some, but if someone has them and isn’t using them :).
Thanks to anyone who is willing to assist me with this. I am still pretty new to the model train scene but have plenty of experience with models. I will be updating this thread occasionally with photos and progress reports. Please let me know if there is a more appropriate place to post this.
I can see your thinking about the black and gold (“Hawkeyes” is the nickname of U. of Iowa sports teams, but it’s also a nickname for Iowans in general) but I don’t think in this case they did, it would be more likely to be in the IC brown and orange I would think. Any CG units used on the train (BTW, why would CofG be involved - was this some kind of a joint operation between the two roads??) would probably be in CofG colors (which were blue and gray IIRC).
According to the literature provided for inspiration for the contest, in the caption below the picture of the Hawkeye, it explains how Illinois Central trains that ran between Chicago and Florida had operating rights on the line that ran from Birmingham, Alabama to Albany, Georgia. “Railroads with such arangements sometimes pooled locomotives to make the most efficient use of the equipment.” In other words, Central of Georgia had an E8 sitting around unused and there was a need for a locomotive on the Hawkeye, so they sent the E8 north to pick up the consist of a baggage car and two coaches.
What you are saying is that it would be more likely that they would have left the loco in it’s Central of Georgia colors, which makes sense. Does someone have a paint scheme photo or diagram that I can use for that. Also, the Illinois Central cars would have been painted in their native colors as well. This would be brown on top with an orange band along the bottom? Again, if someone has the color scheme or a photo that would be circa 1965-70 I would really apreciate it.
The Hawkeye was an Illinois Central train running in Iowa and Illinois. It would have been pulled by IC engines only. What they’re talking about is that there were trains that covered more than one railroad to get from city A to city B. Each railroad would usually move the train over their own line, and hand it off to the other road where their lines met.
For example, Northern Pacific’s North Coast Limited ran from Seattle to St.Paul MN on the NP with NP engines, then was turned over to the Burlington who hauled the train (with CB&Q engines) to Chicago, since the NP only went as far east as St.Paul.
Illinois Central didn’t make it all the way to Florida, so it’s Florida trains started in Chicago and ran south and east as far as IC tracks went, then IC turned the train over to CofG or other “southern” railroads to take it to Florida. It’s possible I suppose a CofG engine might have pinch-hit for an IC engine and taken a train into IC territory, but it would be unusual.
There some passenger trains that went on like 3-4 different railroads to get from one place to another. Also, some cars would be “interchanged” in places like Chicago, so you could sometimes see a New York Central sleeping car heading west towards Los Angeles on the Santa Fe, or a Southern Pacific car heading east to New York from Chicago on the NYC or Pennsy.
So, from what you are saying, the picture that was used for the example of the Hawkeye, was probably taken in the Georgia area. That is a little confusing, but your explanation helps. If I want to stay true to what the Hawkeye should have been, I should paint the E8 with Illinois Central colors? How can I be sure that an E8 was the standard engine for the Chicago/Sioux City run? Again, any info would be greatly apreciated.
Today, a few items arrived for my Hawkeye pike size contest entry. I purchased two Rivarossi undecorated coaches, #R6665 and a Rivarossi S. S. baggage car, #R6604. I need to change the trucks on the coaches to six wheel heavy duty trucks and change the couplers on the baggage car from the old hook style to realistic ones. The couplers on the baggage car are quite long and are attached to the trucks so I don’t think it will be to difficult to swap them. I also ordered a few books today that have color photographs of the Illinois Central line and I’m hoping to find something with the Hawkeye in it. I’m going to try to attach some photos of what I got today.
I may be able to provide some information concerning IC passenger trains. I don’t have my references handy but this is what I remember.
IC passenger (EMD E-6 through E-9) locomotives and cars were painted in the orange and brown scheme in the early 50s. They also had a small fleet of “passenger” GPs that were in the standard black and white freight locomotive scheme.
I suspect you went back and read the original story which probably listed the Riverossi cars. At the time the story was written, these were the best choice (I’ve converted a few of these myself). Since then, the Walthers passenger cars have been released in Illinois Central colors and these would be my choice today. P2K E units in IC have been, and I think still are, available. Be careful to distinguish between the original “Green Diamond” and the later “Split Rail” logo.
The IC colors are difficult, but not impossible, to obtain and I haven’t seen the Walthers decals in many years.
The Central of Georgia E-8 was one of two assigned to the joint Chicago to Florida service and were for some time painted in IC orange and brown, even down to a carrying a Green Diamond on the nose with Central of Georgia instead of Illinois Central lettering through it. These units probably started as “pool power” and stayed to the Chicago - Florida route but at some point were more widely used on the IC (some type of lease agreement perhaps) and that explains them on a Chicago - Iowa train.
I think the “Hawkeye” was the day train and the “Land-o-Corn” the night train to Iowa. I believe the few IC E-6s were often assigned to these trains and the passenger GPs were used on the night train. I know I only rarely saw an E-6 on the Chica
Thanks for all the great info Mac. I have yet to find a good E unit for this train and I agree that the decals are seeming difficult to come by. I am travelling to Talladega, Alabama tomorrow for a week to see the Nascar races and will have some free time on Thursday to do some sight seeing and shopping. Perhaps someone could recommend a good shop in the Birmingham/Talladega area to look into?
You said that the paint is hard to come by. Is that because of the colors? I was planning to try to match the colors from a reference book when those get here. My plan is to paint the stripes and base colors on with an airbrush and use the decals only for the lettering.
BLI produced both E-6 and E-8’s decorated for Illinois Central, and Proto 2000 Life-Like / Walthers made E-8’s decorated for IC. Not sure if these are still in production, but they shouldn’t be that hard to find. I believe both companies offer/offered them with sound.
Several companies I believe have made IC-decorated passenger cars too, as mentioned earlier, Walthers makes them; I think Rivarossi did at one time too. I think Rapido does too??
The Hawkeye was IC,s overnight train between Chicago and Iowa and, as of 1950, carried 2 hvywt Pullmans in addition to coaches and head end cars (baggage or RPO). The day train (coaches and a baggage car) was the Land O’ Corn. At some point the hvywt Pullmans were undoubtedly swapped for ltwts (most likely 6-6-4s) so the time frame you’re modeling will be very important for an accurate consist. The use of 6 wheel trucks on the coaches would inidcate that they were rebuilt hvywts (which IC did a lot of) and towards the 60s would probably have been ltwts which would have used the 4 wheel trucks. As for decals and paint: Micro Scale has 2 sets of decals that would be appropriate, 87-348 which has stripes and lettering for the engine and 87655 for the car stripes. For car lettering you might try Champ to see if they have any BRH-15 IC Panama Limited sets still available. For Paint,Scalecoat EL yellow will work for the striping if you don’t want to use decals for that. They make an IC Orange that works but you’ll have to use roof brown darkened w/ a few drops of black for the IC brown. You do NOT want to use the truck mounted couplers. Mount the couplers on the bodies or you’ll never be able to back your train w/o derailing!
Thanks guys for even more info to consider :). I just found a small set of Rivarossi, IC cars that I may or may not use to “flesh out” my consist. I am planning to use them as a template for the paint jobs that I need. The two coaches that I already have use body mounted couplers but the baggage car has the long couplers mounted to the trucks. Perhaps the new baggage car from the set that I got off of eBay will have body mounts.
Sorry I reversed the day and night trains. I do recall the night trains often operated with a pair of GPs rather than the more typical E units. If you like the looks of the E-6, it would also be prototypical rather than the far more numerous E-7/8/9s. In later years they often carried a few Flexi-Van flat cars in express service trailing the passenger consist. Not very sexy, but seldom modelled.
Another source of paint is Modelflex (1673-IC Orange & 1674-IC Brown). I wasn’t certain they were still available but both are in the new Walthers catalog. I’d agree that your best source of lettering may well be Champ (available direct, check online).
Don’t know the Birmingham area but do note a shop listed in Model Railroader. They aren’t all winners but I’ve discovered some great shops throughout the country via this directory. Always worth a look.
