recently started to paint my steam locomotives Bowser’s pacific and mountain.
My question is: how can you keep the paint on?
I prime with mr surfacer and spray with tamiya acryilics and i barely touch my locomotives and the paint chips off even if stored in their boxes.
i need some input here
thank you
Did you clean everything thoroughly before painting? With the locos disassembled (and motors removed) even a soak in warm water and dishwashing detergent will remove most of the grease and oil from handling. Rinse well, and let dry completely before painting.
Wayne
Is the paint just coming off or the paint AND the primer?
paint and primer
i heard something or read it. soaking in vinager helps maintain the paint on is this true?
You should also give it a coat or two of dullcote to seal the paint. that will protect the paint…
Not if the initial paint isnt adhering to the model…no amount of dullcoat or overcoat will protect that. Dullcoat is meant to protect decals, but in your thinking, he needs to primer, color coat, dull coat, gloss coat (to allow decal adhesion), dull coat, then final coat? That is a lot of paint. Paint, if applied properly, should be able to survive man-handling.
You need to strip off the offending paint and scrub that model down with detergent and water. Let it airdry and reapply the primer. Remember to let it dry overnight as a minimum or you will trap uncured paint underneath.
David B
You said you used ‘‘Mr.Surfacer’’, that’s Gunze Sangyo primer correct? Long ago when Gunze Sangyo first came on the American market I tried it…and it was possibly the WORST acrylic paint I’ve ever seen…thin,the colors were almost translucent and it pebbled badly when airbrushed…I would think that in the 20 odd years since then they would’ve fine tuned the mix but maybe not.
I remember several occasions that complaints about paint adhesion were voiced at the LHS regarding Gunze Sangyo, and the primer was a key topic…it didn’t stick well [or in some cases at all] to some styrene plastics and vinyl…since you’re having a total paint adhesion failure and the primer is chipping, my opinion is that the acrylic primer didn’t bond with the plastic…you will need to remove it completely, alcohol might work to remove it and you can try another primer.
Good Luck
Bowser ? - Aren’t these a metal kit ?? If I’m correct, give it a laquer thinners bath and use a laquer based primer, either airbrushed or rattle can. Any subsequent finishes will adhere no problem. Don’t do this to any plastic components though !!!
Mark.
To get paint to stick to metal (Zamac) takes a little doing. Any grease or oil, even a single finger print can cause the paint to fail. A good hot water and dish detergent bath will get most of the grease off. Don’t touch the model with your bare hands after cleaning. Zamac is kinda slick and greasy, pickling it in a mild acid (household vinegar works) will cut the slickness and etch the surface of the metal enough to give the paint some tooth to grab onto.
Your first coat wants to be a metal primer, the primers stick better than the finish colors, cover better, and offer a satin finish surface for the finish paint to grab onto. Myself, I paint steam locomotives with nothing but dark gray auto primer from a spray can from the auto parts store. The auto primer is made to stick to metal, the dark gray color is better than engine black for a model that will be viewed under artificial light, and the primer dries dead flat. I usually remove the boiler assembly from the running gear and paint it separately to keep paint out of the works. You want to paint on a warm dry day and never touch the new paint until it is good and dry, at least over night.
You can help to paint dry by placing the model in the oven, but this can be error prone. First get permission from SWMBO to use her oven, and make sure no one in the family will turn the oven on to do a casserole or something. Don’t get too hot. If the model gets too warm to touch, its too hot and the paint may do awful things. Some ovens (like mine) just won’t set down far enough to use for paint drying.
David Starr
tghe paint that i am using as primer by mr surfacer uses thinner as a thinner (ironic i know) so it isn’t acrylic at least from what i know. The acrylic paints that i’m using are tamiya so they are good quality paints. and yes bowser is a metal model so should i clean and pickle it? than spray it w/automotive primer instead? and cover it with my acrylic paints.
thanks for all the info this forum has really helped and in more than 1 way
Unless the cast is showing physical signs of oxidation, I see no reason to “pickle it”. I restore diecast cars as well, and one they’ve been stripped of old paint, I do nothing more than give them a laquer thinners wash to remove impurities. The important part at this stage is to not handle the bare casting with your hands. Oils and impurities from your hands WILL affect the adhesion of the finish. Laquer based primer adheres well to the metal casting and isn’t as heavy as enamel based primers. Once the laquer based primer has cured, you now have a good base to apply what-ever type final finish you desire.
Mark.
It goes like this.
Surface prep. Remove all old paint. Wash with soap and hot water. Pickle in vinegar. Wash with soap and hot water again. Rinse in just hot water. Dry.
Prime. One coat of dark gray auto primer. Spray carefully, don’t get it so wet the primer drips, don’t spray so dry the paint is dry before it hits the model. You want a hint of wetness on the surface as the spray moves across it, but no more than a hint of wetness. Dry at least overnight. Longer is better.
The auto primer has all the best tricks the paint chemists know to make the stuff stick to bare, slightly rusty and slightly greasy auto body metal. No water based paint of any type is going to have the stick power of auto primer on metal. Most (not all, but most) solvent based paints are inferior to auto primer when it comes to sticking to metal.
Optional. Finish coat of your favorite color, in either water based or solvent based paint. I skip this step, 'cause I like the look of the drak gray primer on steam locomotives.
Decal. I find decals stick just fine to the flat primer. I use Solvaset to make the decal snuggle down around the rivet details.
Final coat is a light spray of Dullcote just to make the decals blend it. If I didn’t decal, I’d skip the Dullcote, but steamers need decals, if only for a road name and engine number.
David Starr