Flat wheels brought up another question. I am going to carefully word this so I hopefully don’t get it wrong.
I can’t say for sure, but BNSF in my part of the state I think uses CTC? I know it is the block system, since I have seen it. I understand basically how it works. Seems very simple and also seems to work very well!
I know the dispatcher knows where my train is by a light on a map?
Now - very simply, where are the sensors that relay that info to him? In the rails? Is it along side the rails? (I have seen fiber optics being put in close to rails)
In the very sophisticated areas, do they use other means of reporting whereabouts?
Each rail is wired into 1 side of a circuit, with a connection to the signal system at each end of the rail for (within) a certain block. Think of a common table lamp or floor lamp - there are 2 wires in the cord, running from the plug to the socket and bulb. Pretend for the moment that each of those wires are like one of the rails.
When that block is unoccupied, the current enters each rail at 1 end of the block, and flows unimpeded to the other end. The signal system detects that and is happy (green signal). For our lamp, it’s the same as the electricity coming in through the plug, running through 1 wire, through the bulb and lighting it, and back to the plug through the other wire.
If a broken rail (completely though) occurs, the current doesn’t get to the other end of the block. For our lamp, that’s just like breaking one of the wires in the cord - also just like when in a string of Christmas lights, 1 of the lights burns out and they all go out. The signal system detects that, too, but is now unhappy (red signal). But through the magic of the signal circuitry, the system knows how to do that, instead of just being dark or out like our lamp or the Christmas lights would be (someone else will have to explain the details of how the signal system’s relays (old days) or transistors or circuit boards (not so long ago) or integrated circuits (today) “pick-up” and “drop out” to make that occur. For your question, the same circuitry that makes the signals go red will (almost always) also make the light on the dispatcher’s board go “on”.
Now what happens when a train comes along into this block ? Well, the steel wheels and axles across and between the 2 separated rails “bridge” (or “shunt” or “short”) between
Some are, as are some rail cars and containers. They may or may not be sending data back to a central processing center. There’s a lot of “it depends.”
Eventually all the locomotives will be - look up one of the threads discussing PTC…
Regardless of the method of train control no train can occupy the main track without “authority” from the dispatcher. This makes “hiding” both unsafe and difficult.
In the west if a territory is not CTC, then it is either Automatic Block Signal or “Dark Territory”. In both cases authority to occupy the main track is conveyed to the train by the dispatcher and the train releases authority back to the dispatcher as it progresses. In the “good old days” this was done by train orders. Today it is done in the west by track warrants or Direct Traffic Control, both are very commonly transmitted by voice radio.
Back in the days of train orders the dispatcher had a train sheet to help keep track of where trains were. A train sheet can also be used with warrants and DTC, but the rage now is computer aided dispatching which gives a graphical representation of authority that has been issued.
One of the things I understand Positive Train Control will be able to do is transmit and release authority by data radio which will save dispatchers and crews a lot of time on the radio. The railroads will try to use the “free time” so created to enlarge dispatcher territories.
Hiding in “dark” territory is pretty easy - unless there’s somebody else who needs the track or you’re running out of hours.
On the Scenic, we get a NORAC Form D for the track we want and keep it all day. In fact, if the dispatcher is knocking off and we won’t be back in in time, we’ll just hold the Form D until the next day.
That means we can lollygag as much as we want and it doesn’t make a whit of difference.
On the other hand, sometimes we have to coordinate with another train and, as has been said, give track back to the dispatcher when we clear it so another following train can follow us.
On the CSX line here (dark territory) I used to routinely hear the DS gathering cleared track from one train and giving it to another. Now they rarely have any such situations due to a dearth of traffic.
I did once stop and let a crew know the DS was looking for them. They were off the train taking an ice cream break at a trackside convenience store and couldn’t hear him on their hand-held radio. And he was looking for track…
Which reminds me of a humorous quote from a TRAINS magazine from several years ago. There was an interview with a representative from GE (I think) talking about this feature, which can be affected by satellite coverage, and terrain. The interviewer asked him about the future, and the GE guy said he wished the loco’s out west would phone home more often![(-D]
Some years ago in Trains - I think the article referenced below - the author described dispatching on the many branch lines of one of the granger railroads. Back in that day of lengthy branch lines as “dark territory” (no signals at all), with poor track conditions, 10 MPH “slow orders” the whole way, no open stations (“agents”), no radios, and no cell phones, and with many grain elevators and other industries or sidings to stop and work at, it was common for a train crew to be out there for several days before they came back. Because the distances were not long, one of the crew would usually drive along with his car to take everyone home at the end of the workday, and back again the next day. It wouldn’t be a safety problem, because there was never more than 1 train on the branch at a time. But in those circumstances it was easy to basically lose track of a train and crew, and where they were at.
So what the author described doing was - if I recall correctly - ending each train order with a line that it “Expires at 11:59 PM” of the day it was issued. That way the crew had freedom to do what they needed to do during the day, but it forced them to tie up in a siding each night (in the unlikely event another train would need to run the main). More importantly, they then had to contact the DS each morning for new track authority for that day’s run and work, which provided him an opportunity to get updated on where they were at and intended to be doing that day, and generally keep informed and in control of the railroad - as he should be.
PDN.
Of Rule 93, Form S-C, and the bow and arrow country
Dosent really matter, because the dispatcher never really “knows” where you are at, all they know is if you have gone past a given point or not…
the big borad only shows block occuied, not exact loaction.
The dispatcher will know if, say moving west, you have passed a signal at mp 101, but have not gone past the signal at mp 130…which means your somewhere in that 29 mile section of track.
If they are a good dispatcher, have worked that section or board before and workedyour shift before, he has a pretty good idea where you are and what you are doing, but not an exact location…he really does not need to know where you are, only where you are not.
If he needs to run something past you that is unexpected, he will contact you and find out when and where, then make plans accordingly.
To follow-up on what edblysard said, I think it was Railway Man a couple months ago in a “PTC” thread here who pointed out - besides pretty much the same - that if the DS really needs to know where the train is, what’s going on with it, and/ or what the crew needs or intends to do . . . he’ll just call on the radio or cell phone, rather than guessing from the display.
FRA Emergency Order 26 - Emergency Order To Restrict On-Duty Railroad Operating Employees’ Use of Cellular Telephones and Other Distracting Electronic and Electrical Devices (7 pages - the actual text of the issued Order is on Pages 6 and 7 of 7), as found at:
By the engineer, while the train is moving or other safety-related actions are occurring - yes, you’re right, per (d) (1).
However - as I understand it - for the conductor, using the cell phone in the cab of a moving train is permitted under certain specified but nevertheless normal conditions, as follows: If it’s a railroad-issued cell phone for the performance of official duties, and as long as the requisite pre-trip job safety briefing covered that usage and all affected agree that it’s safe to do, etc., then it’s permissible for the conductor to answer and use the cell phone in the cab per (d) (2), and when on the ground if no safety-related actions are underway per (d) (4). See also exception (f) (4) - when under the conditions specified in Part 220, etc. These are the circumstances I had in mind.
Let me know if you have a different interpretation or understanding of this rule.
Hiding from the dispatcher can not happen here is why in CTC I need a procede sisnal from the dispatcher or if they ear having signal problems I can be granted authority by getting flagged (talked by) by the signal. In TWC I must have a warrant to occupy the main track in single main in 2 main tracks it will specify main 1 or main 2 track, if I am out on the main’s with out authority I am taken out of service (i.e. on the portche at home collecting job insurance).
I will stick my neck out and say that years ago, we may have been TWC. But now we are, as Houston Ed said, ABS with CTC overlay (at least I think that is the way he had it) We still have a lot of rural area here in the true midwest and ABS makes sense. Plus it is fun to watch - when you can see the signals.
Mookie (and others) - To get back to the original question (above), some things that I just thought of:
As a better answer and perhaps to help understand this, you might want to download - or at least look at (depending on how sophisticated and powerful your computer is) - the “freeware” simulation game “Train Dispatcher 2” from SoftRail (formerly Signal Computer Consultants - their home page is: http://www.signalcc.com ), Upated 2/12/2006, at:
Finally, if you run into a railfan someplace that has a laptop and the ATCS software up and running for where you’re at - say, at Rochelle or some other “hotspot” - then you
Why would you want to hide from the dispatcher? Sure, he might not be happy about you stopping your train at a gas station to use the bathroom, because the CSX loco bathrooms are too filthy, but that’s what the railroad gets for not maintaining teh bathrooms. Not the train crew’s fault…