The issue isnt the speaker, it is the decoder. If you had a Tsunami in there, then you would hear a difference because it supports the lower ranges. In fact, with the Tsunami, you can adjust the equalizer to match the speaker. The decoder you have in there is made for smaller speakers in the high frequency range.
Does anyone know if the high bass speakers will fit into the fuel tank sockets that Kato provides now on its newer diesel HO units ? Based upon the dimensions, it appears the high bass speakers may be too deep. I am wondering if anyone has tried this ?
I agree. Most sound mixers automatically cut off some bass to help prevent distortion and wasted energy. If you will note, the QSI decoders often have two sets of files for the same engine. One set is often the files mixed for larger speakers.
For a Tsunami, boost the lower end of the eq, or set the CV for speaker size.
If this is the older DSD-100 series, then try dropping the capacitor on the speaker lead and see what happens. This acts as a high pass filter.
No…a baffle is an air-tight enclosure behind one face of a speaker. Kato has included a speaker holder, in my opinion, not a proper baffle.
Again, I strongly suggest that you do NOT put speakers in the fuel tank. Over time, the sound will become more and more distorted. There are much better options for speaker locations.
The second half of the clip, which you have marked as “high bass” definitely has a deeper, throatier sound. I asked my wife to listen to see which one sounded “better” without telling her anything about it-- she just heard the sound without seeing the video. She also said the second half was better.
Baffle = sealed enclosure; this is not completely accurate. I write the following for all installing your own sound, but do not have professional audio electronics experience.
In audio electronics, the definition of a baffle is a partition that checks (isolates) the front sound waves of a loundspeaker from the rear sound waves. Case in point - ever seen a guitar amplifer /speaker combo? the rear is open. Old radios and televisions from the early days were designed the same way. A sealed enclosure is a different type of baffle. The reason they are so popular in model trains is they ensure isolation between front and rear waves. The small areas we deal with have more opportunity for front/rear air mixing due to air pressure. Infinite baffle designs also work in our hobby; greater care is taken to create isolation. One of the benefits of infinite baffle design as it relates to us is it can produce deeper richer sounds. In some cases such as in sound outfitted E units and F units the shell
Ill say it again. Speakers in the fuel tank is a bad, bad idea. I have seen and fixed the result of the magnet-next-to-everything issues with this arrangement. Not to mention the magnet/magnet issue when crossing over an uncoupler magnet.
In our hobby a baffle needs to be sealed, we are not hooking up a guitar here, we need all the help we can get.
I read your post on painting superliners and learned from it. Want to say that I met modelers at a club that had sound in their 1:87 engines. They took their engines apart so visitors could see the electronic parts inside. All of them had the speakers facing down. One of the modelers told me that tonys trains owner hooked it up that way based on his method. tony the owner who is a sound expert. In O scale most of our sound engines had the speakers in the fuel tank pointing down too.
Isolation can be achieved sucessfully without a sealed enclosure; sealed enclosures are recommended because it greatly increases the success rate of an installaton; It reduces the need to engineer a taylored enclosure.
In addition, most of the speakers use a mylar cone or similar material as opposed to coated paper; mylar cone speakers used have a rating of 0.1 watts to 0.5 watts and are very efficient. A sealed enclosure allows high output while protecting the speaker cone with a cushion of air inside the enclosure. This reduces distortion and extends speaker life. The problem with speaker failure on the BLI F-units was related to high output with poor baffling.
However, not all installations in HO scale and scales larger require a sealed enclosure. The other less efficient speakers used in our hobby are used typically in notebook computers. These speakers are not in a sealed enclosure in this application. The speaker cone is less prone to damage due to flexing and have a rating of 0.5 to 1.5 watts. An infinite baffle is used because it provides a richer tone while taking advantage of the resonant quality of the notebook’s casing. Steam locomotive tenders and covered wagons with large spacial bodies benefit greatly from this approach.
Sealed enclosures are typically have small area, hence reduced lower frequency output; when using older Soundtraxx decoders (pre-Tsunami) there was little low frequency output, especially with a coupling capacitor rated at 33 microfarads.
As a professional installer, I can tell you that the only way I have gotten satisfactory results is with a sealed baffle. I have hundreds of installs and I have experimented with many types of speaker installs.
For example, Install a speaker into a Kato unit with the supplied speaker holder. Listen to it. Then take the speaker out and put it in a proper baffle. The difference is night and day. The baffled speaker is clearer and has less distortion.
I stand behind what I say because this is what keeps my customers coming back. I offer this advice freely and offer it with experience behind it…nothing more.
In the case of the Kato fuel tank, poor output results from front and rear air pressure combining. I agree as designed this will cause distortion with thin material diaphragms. Placing the speaker in a sealed enclosure in the locomotive gives better performance because of the improved isolation. The spring effect from a sealed enclosure will always provide stable output with low distortion. I do not dispute this. But there are other factors to consider. Poor low frequency response in a tight space is one of the trade-offs. Many customers may not miss this. Some will appreciate the difference when using other options.
BTW I install professionally; 30 years audio tech experience; taught electronics for 8 of those years. I only put this in so you know I’m not a novice or dabble for fun.
To be fair, there are situations where a sealed enclosure produces the best, loudest sound. Especially in narrow hood locomotives with limited air space and lots of places for air to escape.
The challenge when using an infinite baffle is to make sure the front air pressure has no way to mix with the rear air pressure. In some cases that means turning the body and chassis into a larger sealed enclosure OR creating a large isolation enclosure such that the “reach” of the front wave cannot extend to the back wave’s area; in other words the rear wave chamber ideally extends beyond the wavelength. While this is easier to achive across the board with O gauge and larger scales, many HO scale large locos (E-units for example) have better than satisfactory results. I should mention isolation and sealed are very similar in this respect, because the preventing front and back air waves are the goal. Sealing is the easiest, simplest way to create isolation. Place a high-bass speaker in a sealed enclosure vs a GS4 tender and the results are quite noticeable. Place the same speaker in the end of a foot long tube sealed only at the mounted end and the results
