Several weeks ago, about 180 different plans were submitted to the federal railroad administation. The plan selected will be given x-billion in stimulus money. I personally am hoping that they select the Tampa-Orlando-Miami route (I live in Tampa,so yes, there is bias here). What are your thoughts on who should get the money, and do you live near a proposed project?
N.B. they make the announcement Christmas Eve. What a present that would be…
Applicants are states. Where multiple states are involved, one of the states is the lead applicant. 24 of the 50 states submitted applications for funding for projects.
The applications are for discrete projects that are elements of rail systems, not for whole rail systems.
Many states submitted multiple applications. There are more than 250 applications. The law required separate applications and grouped them into four tracks depending upon the nature of the projects. The most important distinctions between applications are the status of design, land acquisition, agreements with host railroads, and environmental permitting, and whether the state intends to provide any matching funds. States with ready-to-build projects that are already designed, permitted, land acquired, and agreements consummated submitted under Track 1 (no state match) or Track 4 (with state match). Track 2 is for projects that can be permitted, designed, and be released for construction within the next few years. Track 3 is planning money only, for projects that are just now starting. Most of the applications are Track 1 or 2. 100% federal funding is available for Track 2 projects.
Not all of the projects are, or are ever intended to be, high-speed rail. The law envisioned that many 79-mph corridor-level passenger projects would apply, either to improve existing corridors or to establish new ones, and many did.
$8 billion is available in the current application cycle. An additional $1 billion is available each of the next three years.
Not all of the $8 billion has to be awarded in this cycle; additional application rounds can be held.
The law allows nearly all of the $8 billion in this cycle to be awarded to a single project.
Statements as to which applications will be successful require disclosure of confidential information at risk of prosecution, or clairvoyance.
RWM
I really, truly hope that the Desert Xpress scheme for high-speed rail between a park-and-ride in Victorville, CA (top of Cajon Pass) and Las Vegas, NV, gets laughed out of the room. I can’t think of any economic justification or social purpose for a route that will probably never generate enough passengers to repay its operating costs, never mind paying off the construction notes.
If the casino owners thought this thing was even somewhat worthwhile, they’d be lining up, checkbooks in hand, to get it built. If they are, it’s the best kept secret in Southern Nevada.
Chuck (Clark County, NV, resident)
$8 Billion is what Uncle Sugar has. $200+ Billion is what what Uncle Sugar got in proposal applications. FRA is wading through the applications knowing that no what the decision, nobody is going to be happy with the outcome.
An awful lot of the something for nothing, revenue inadequate proposal trial balloons are going to pop early next year.
I disagree. Uncle actrually doesn’t have even the $8 billion.
US “High Speed Rail” is a solution in search of a problem. But what’s an extra few billion dollars of debt that can’t be repaid?
Hey, we “Need” a high speed rail passenger system between Tampa/Orlando/Miami. Why? They don’t say. At least they don’t say without making stuff up.
Adding to the Masked Trackman’s comments, the applications from the ones I have some knowledge about can be sorted into three categories:
When built, actually results in a delivered transportation product – actual trains running on actual schedules – and delivers more transportation value to the public than the public invested to build it.
When built, doesn’t actually result in any trains running because the project only delivers some of the necessary pieces, or, the project does not deliver more transportation value to the public than the public invested.
Looks like Category 1 on paper, but it really fits in Category 2, because the applicants either exaggerated the cost-benefit ratio or exaggerated the completeness of the project, or did not understand how to calculate the first or how hard it will be to deliver the second.
RWM
I vote for this one since it involves my home town, and is already in progress.
NC has already invested millions upgrading the State owned NS operated ROW between Charlotte and Raleigh.
http://www.sehsr.org/history.html
I also favor the California high speed rail project because I would like to see true high speed tried in this country.
Hopefully, the 2’s won’t get more consideration than they deserve and the 3’s will provide significant entertainment value.
This exercise bring to mind the scene in “Oh Brother Where Art Thou” where both politicians try desperately to claim the Soggy Bottom Boys as their own and only manage to appear even more foolish and desperate than the other.
It’s going to be a long time before we ride a high speed train in North America, maybe in 5 ,6 , 8 years there might be some short inter-city runs, but don’t start packing your suitcase soon, this high speed stuff has been going on for years, even the Russians haven’t got theirs up and moving yet and it’s been 10 years for them. Remember, this isn’t Switzerland, if you think you will be able to jump on a train in New York and zoom over to Santa Barbara in a day and a half, you will hope to live till you are 175.
Heck, that ought to be do-able today - 3,200 miles more or less in 36 hrs. is only around 90 MPH average. A 110 or 120 MPH max. ‘limited stops’ ought to be able to get close to that. I believe even the Burlington’s original Denver to Chicago Zephyr averaged about 85 MPH on its non-stop inaugural run - way back in the 1930s sometime. So we just need to turn the clock back about 75 years . . .
If we ever get up to 150 MPH average, then that trip could be done in just under a day - say, about 22 hrs.
And ''If pigs had wings . . . ‘’, too . . .
Having just recently made the Seville to Madrid run by train-330 miles in 2 hours 20 minutes (with a couple of intermediate stops), I have to say that real high speed rail service is it!
Unfortunately, we in the US are either too cheap or spend to much money on other things to have much hope of ever getting much similar service. The US DOT and others have put lines on the map for the under 500 mile markets where such service would be a reasonable alternative to flying. (And sure beat the heck out of driving.) The problem is that the cost of building the high speed lines for those markets would run (my WAG) a half to three quarters of a $trillion.
Normally I would vote for the Wisconsin one but I don’t know because I don’t know what’s going on with it. I remember hearing it was supposed to be from Milwaukee to Green Bay, then a Trans issue from around November (the one with articles about Obama using rail service) had a mention about it that showed the high speed rail was supposed to be Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison. Green Bay has a LOT of people from Chicago so a regular rail service from GB-Milwaukee-Chicago would get a lot of use. I know use probably more then I think I would right now. There are some things in MIL I do and I love going to the museums and Shed’s Aquarium in Chi town. Plus it would give me an exscuse to ride a train [:-^] Now only if they operate some what like the airlines and give people tours of the power unit [swg] I would most certainly go for a cab ride.
We need it so we can connect more people and relieve traffic on the Interstate(s). There is a part of town (on the interstate) that we refer to as malfunction junction for obvious reasons. If we can prove that high speed rail can succeed in Florida, we can prove that it is a good idea.
8 billion? Well, we never seem to run out of money, so I guess it’s ok. And, It would connect 3/4 of the state.
Too little, too late.
The last word I heard on Florida’s HSR was that it was a dead issue due to the fact that Florida voted against it a few yrs ago when it was a hot item in the USA…
For anyone thats interested you can check www.TexasRailAdvocates.org pg and look the article up…
How much would the sleeper cost me?
I would agree, based on the lack of a successful referendum, that Florida has a big hill to climb.
Probably in the same range as the trans-Atlantic supersonic Concorde used to cost, or the current British Air ‘sleeper service’, I suppose . . . [zzz]
The projects that deserve to be awarded the bulk of the stimulus money are: 1) California (Likely operator: DB or Virgin Trains). They have done the most out of any region in justifying ultra fast train service. They will have something for everybody, and all of the state’s major cities would finally be covered by some type of intercity train service. 2) Midwest (Likely operators: Amtrak for Michigan routes, Spain’s RENFE for the Hiawatha extension to Madison and the Twin Cities, Herzog or another operator for Missouri service, either Amtrak or SNCF for the St. Louis route, and tossups for the other MWHSR corridors). The Midwest has been preparing for HSR for at least a decade, and it also helps that one of their own is in the White House. Adding service in states like lIllinois also make the case that the Midwest is the most deserving area outside of the coasts for federal funds. 3) Southeast (Likely operators: Amtrak for the D.C.-Charlotte, Piedmont, and Richmond-Newport News routes; a PPP between NS and another operator). I have lived along the Piedmont corridor for virtually all of my life, and I’ve seen the reemergence of train travel happen here. This area has spent the last 17 years doing all that it can to better promote train service–at least NC and VA have. Like the Midwest, a multi-state pact here makes it possible for faster trains to pass by and stop in major cities in the Southeast. Although the HSR operators are merely my own guess, it’s very likely that Amtrak would win bids for parts of the MW, SE, and the NW (since it already owns tracks in MI, and the other two regions have a good relationship with the carrier), but FL and CA are shoo-ins to be operated by a foreign company. As for Florida, it has badly fumbled any meaningful plans for HSR. As a result, it has to get in line behind California, the Midwest, and the Southeast (in that order) and rethink its business plan as well. As a matter of fact, it may even be fifth behind the Northwest when it com