Ok, here is the deal, over the last several days I have been trying to find someplace on the web that I can find out which railroad operated through Knoxville, IA before BNSF took over. Actually I am looking for who was operating like back in the fifties. I am also trying to find some info (pictures and what not) of what online customers there were then. I know how I can find out, just simply ask a local professor, but that would just give me the information, and I am actually wanting to kind of find it myself if I can. I have tried the library here in town, no luck there.
Does anybody have any websites that might be able to help me, or any books that I should try to find that would give me the kind of information I am looking for?
Thanks in advance for any information you can give me.
I cannot answer your question but can suggest how to research. The book of maps put out by Steam powered video (a British firm) shows current and former rail lines and identies them. I do not have mine with me as I write this or I would look up Knoxville for you. But another place would be a vintage highway map or official city/village map. I have found wonderful old maps in city directories (the kind where they list by street number rather than name) in public libraries.
Dave Nelson
Quote “I have been trying to find someplace on the web that I can find out which railroad operated through Knoxville, IA before BNSF took over. Actually I am looking for who was operating like back in the fifties.”
Sounds like you are trying to use the technology of the 21st century (the web) to find the info of the 1950s. Let us try using the technology of the 1950s.
A station agent would look up info in The Official Guide of the Railways and Steam Navigation Lines of the United States, Porto Rico, Canada, Mexico and Cuba better known as simply the Official Guide. It was a 1200 to 1500 page book on thin onion-skin paper published monthly. Important agencies got the current copies which was handed down to less important stations when newer editions came in. The Guide had an index listing every town and “station” (named point on a railroad, not necessarily a depot building) in the United States with the railroads that served that point, stations in that town, etc.
I have the Official Guide for March 1958. Bought it at a regional convention silent auction for $5 in 1974. Now you can find them if you are lucky for $$$$.
Knoxville IOWA?? (Not Kentucky?) The Guide says it was served by Burlington Route, timetable 25.
Knoxville was on a 68 mile route between Des Moines and Albia. Mixed train #28 was scheduled to leave Des Moines at 7:15AM daily except Sunday. Several stations were flag stop only, but Knoxville is listed as a coupon station with a regular stop and checked baggage service. The train was scheduled to make the 35 miles from Des Moines by 9:30AM, a 2 1/2 hour ride at -let’s see- an average 14 miles an hour. An hour and a half later at 11, the train was due at Albion, with possible connections to Ottumwa, Peoria, St. Louis and Chicago.
But apparent mixed train #27 turned around and became #27, leaving Albia at 11:30AM, s
That would be the C B & Q also known as the Burlington Route. It came southeast from Des Moines, through Knoxville (east/west), and contacted with the Wabash in Harvey. The two routes continued together on down to Albia. Both of the elevators would have been around at that time, and they surely would have been served by the railroad. To the east of town, 3M and the packing plant would have probably both been there at that time. Check out Flagler also. It’s a small town just east of Knoxville and just off of the road to Pella (the one that crosses the dam). At one time it had a siding, that I think was for a COOP elevator which is long gone now. The C B & Q also had a line that ran from Tracy through Beacon and on up to Oskaloosa. One of your best sources of information might be the Nursing Home. Those old people love nothing more than to talk about the old times. You’ll be amazed at their memories.
Hope you do not mind a suggestion, NOT for your layout, but for getting responses and information from bulletin boards like this one.
Make your search subject explicit in your topic/title line. Maybe you were just looking for ways to get ANY historical railroad information. But if you want people who know about Iowa railroading to look at and possibly answer your query, it might be better for a topic such as
“Help finding historic info to model Knoxville, Iowa”
But the way, I believe YOU as the originator of the thread can edit/change your own topic line.
I had some indications that Rock Island might have at some point gone through Knoxville, because there is a road parallel to the ROW, that is call Rock Island St. and according to Andy Sperandeo that was the case according to a 1928 Railroad Atlas. I had initial suspicions that the CB&Q also operated here as well.
Now having this information, I can start the process of figuring out what customers were served both in Knoxville, and at the outskirts.
My plan is the model the area with modern equipment, however operate it as it was in the 50’s. I am not really interested in the steam or early diesel era’s, only modern equipment. I am sure that many of you must think this is a bit strange, but I think it will make for interesting operations, and also increase the amount of operating I can put within the Knoxville area.
So am I crazy or what?
The Rock Island did indeed operate into Knoxville at one time. I think it was gone before the 1950s. I’d have to look, but I think it was abandoned in the 1930s.
The Wabash may also have operated thru Knoxville. The current BNSF line between Albia and Des Moines is made up of stretches that were original CB&Q and former Norfolk Southern (original Wabash, then to N&W in 1960s). The Q and Wabash paralleled each other. I don’t know when they combined into joint operation. Today the NS traffic is handled in regular BNSF trains.
At one time, early 20th century, the Minneapolis & St. Louis operated trains over the Wabash between Des Moines and Albia.
A good place for further (and more precise) information would be the respective historical/technical societies for each of the above railroads.
Jeff
Ah, the power of Google…
http://www.knoxville-iowa.com/sites.htm Link to directory of local historic sites. I suggest visiting each, looking around, asking questions, and asking for a research permit.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?brd=1463&Nav_Sec=28760 Your local newspaper’s been around since 1855. Think they might have some articles and photos of interest in their files?
http://www.cityofknoxvilleia.com/LIBRARY.HTM Your local library should have a local history room. While mostly geared towards geneology work, these rooms USUALLY have some useful information in them. Ask the employees about local area historians that you might find useful. And if the newspaper doesn’t have their old issues, the library should have them on microfilm.
http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/railroad/Reports/Albia02report.html ISU has a railroad club. They might know of area railroad historians, or might even have data you need in their own files.
That’s about all I could come up with quickly, but it’s a start. Always remember that tracking down railroad history, especially for a small rural community, will require a LOT of digging through real paper, as only .001% of everything rail-related from the past 150 years or so has been put online.
I did find some more information on the Rock Island line around Knoxville. There was a 5 mile spur east of Knoxville to Flagler that was abandoned in 1933, and twenty-one miles from Knoxville to Evans was abandoned in 1938. It’s been years since I’ve been down to the lower 48 states, and especially to Iowa, but if my memory serves me correctly this would be the line that went through Olivet. I don’t have proof that the Rock actually used the line that became the CB&Q, but I have reason to believe that this line probably came down from Des Moines through Carlilse and Hartford and then swung east through Beech on over to Oskaloosa by way of Knoxville, Harvey and Evans. That’s just speculation but there were a series of realignments back in the thirties that might have done away with that section of the line. There was evidence of a bridge that crossed the Des Moines river that was either just on the north side or just on the south side of Harvey that probably served this line. If I can ever get my scanner to work I’ll post some pictures that I took around Knoxville in the eighties. I have some of a simple coal? loading facility that consists of a ramp for trucks to drive up on and a drop down section for dumping their load into a hopper. I also have some pictures of the old depot floor and foundation. I’ll post more as I can.
Holy cow, I never thought that I would get so much help not only did you all answer my questions, but you pointed me in the right directions to get some answers to my next series of questions. You are all great.
Otto Ray Sing, what brought you to central Iowa. When I read your first reply and saw where you were from, the first thing I thought was that you were either originally from the Knoxville area, or you had found out all of this information while researching for your layout. Do you happen to also be a sprint car fan as well? I am very interested in any and all of the data that you have of this area. Thanks for the info that you have provided me so far.
All of this info has helped me rethink, and fine tune my layout.
Gary
I was born and raised in Oskaloosa. I moved to Kodiak Alaska several years ago with thoughts of retiring here. I grew up in a family that was involved in the dirt track stock cars. My uncle owned a car for as long as I can remember back, and my farher pitted for him. When I was old enough I also pitted for him. After his driver was seriously injured in the mid seventies I drove for him for awhile. I raced at Oskaloosa and Eldon (thus my handle a little play on my past hobby). In the late eighties and early nineties my family (myself wife & children) moved to knoxville for a few years, where I worked at the V. A. hospital. I did try to attend some of the sprint car races, but there was a fence between me and the track, and I just could never handle that. It’s hard enough to not be racing, but to have a fence between me and the track was torture. I have a love for railroads and history, and I manage to combine them at every opportunity. I’ve always been intrigued by that mess of tracks that came in from the south side of Oskaloosa, and therefore I did some investigating to see where they all originated from. I also did research into the Rock Island from Washington to DesMoines. When I lived in Knoxville I walked the tracks almost daily to my job (something I’d never get by with now). I also took numerous pictures. Something that might interest you, is that just to the west of north second street and on the north side of the track there were some cattle pens. I don’t know if they’re still there or not. They were just a little ways to the west of the old depot foundation and not far from the city shop. I haven’t been back there since 1996 so I’m having to rely on an old memory. Also on the south side of the track in that same area there was also a small fuel facility of some sort. It was just a few tanks with a fence around them. The nice thing about that erea is that there is a road,
Wow, as they say what a small world. I grew up in Knoxville. I moved to Perry for about 10 years, but moved back after I got married ( nice place to raise a family). Almost everything that you described is now gone. I think just bits and pieces of some it is now left. There is quite a bit of stuff that is over grown so it can be hard to tell sometimes. I need to take a walk one night (without my daughter) and go alone both sides of the track on the dirt road. I haven’t been any where behind where the coop in, but I know there is an old siding ( or maybe where the Rock Island line was). I have viewed it from the road that goes near there, but that is about it.
I am planning on trying to make Knoxville the center of my layout, that is why I am trying to find out all of this info. I plan to model modern rolling stock and loco’s, but have been thinking about using some modeling license to make it as if a lot of the line side industries and customers are still there and active. I am also interested in having some passenger service to had some interesting challenges to the whole thing.
I can understand how having the fence between you and the track would take the fun out of the racing. I am sure that if I had ever started racing, I would be the same way.
I would love to see the pics if you can get them scanned.
Again, what a small world it is, especially now with the internet.
Faverfan04 how is your progress on your layout?
They don’t seem to be that expensive anymore. I recently got a 1961 one off Ebay for around $15 including shipping. There are about a dozen auctions right now for ones going from 1947 to 1970. Only one has a starting bid over $10. There are also a bunch as Buy it Now, both in paper and on CD.
I guess the market is reflecting that these things were given to just about every railroader or airline employee who dealt with the public as well as every travel agent in North America on a monthly basis. Most buyers aren’t too specific about getting a particular month so there isn’t a real cutthroat demand.
leighant, the most expensive one up for auction right now just happens to be a 9/58 edition going for $24.99. Your $5 purchase in 1974? With inflation, that’d be the same as $20.46 today, so I guess investment-wise you’re ahead four-and-a-half bucks! [:)]
KL